Author Topic: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.  (Read 36994 times)

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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #120 on: April 16, 2018, 04:53:14 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.

Magic and MJ played in a completely different era where teams didn’t live by the three-ball.

In fact, only FIVE of the top 200 3PA in a season occurred prior to MJ’s first retirement.

The three is a vital part of the game now andwasn’t utilized as such back in the 80’s.

It’s very difficult to be an elite player without a respectable shot. You are even seeing a lot of dominant bigs expanding their shots beyond the arc.
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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #121 on: April 16, 2018, 04:54:38 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.

Are you really asking him to explain why the 3 pointer is more important now than in the 80's and why we don't compare Simmons' shooting to a plodding center that never brought the ball up court?  This is quite humorous.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #122 on: April 16, 2018, 04:55:42 PM »

Offline footey

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.

I don’t often agree with Moranis but think Simmons has already proven to be a transformative player, despite lacking 3 point shot. You can just see it. He is that special.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2018, 05:06:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2018, 05:35:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.

Nick I am 100% with you on this one. Plus the comparison to Duncan made me chuckle.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2018, 08:57:30 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #126 on: April 16, 2018, 09:13:59 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
KG didn't shoot 3s but he was a good long 2 shooter.  I agree that the focus on Simmons shooting 3s even at a poor percentage is misplaced.  He'd be better off focusing on his mid-range game.  He does need to shoot better at the line but he did shoot 67% in college.   If Simmons becomes a transcendent player, it will be because he is a 6'10" Rondo-esque PG in a PF body who can defend 1-4 at a high level. 

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #127 on: April 16, 2018, 09:14:34 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.

Moranis I hope you are watching the Philly game cause it is really everything we are talking about here. The 76ers desparately need offense (4 points in 8 minutes) , but Simmons handling the ball is being sagged off and it has completely mucked up the game. He can be an allstar regardless but he absolutely needs to improve his range a little bit to be a franchise level player (I think he will). However arguing otherwise while simultaneously bashing on a two way player with range in Mitchell seems pretty silly

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2018, 09:16:15 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
KG didn't shoot 3s but he was a good long 2 shooter.  I agree that the focus on Simmons shooting 3s even at a poor percentage is misplaced.  He'd be better off focusing on his mid-range game.  He does need to shoot better at the line but he did shoot 67% in college.   If Simmons becomes a transcendent player, it will be because he is a 6'10" Rondo-esque PG in a PF body who can defend 1-4 at a high level.
 

Thing is he is already that. Guy is a border line all nba defender and one of the best passers in the league right now.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #129 on: April 16, 2018, 09:19:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
Transcendental stars who are basically ball handlers and drivers of the ball, in today's game of spread offenses and the importance of outside shooting, can not be a detriment to their team at the FT line or outside of 16 feet.

This isn't the 1980s through early 2000s. Completely different game.

I don't consider Russell Westbrook transcendental. Same for Harden. Paul.

Lebron, Durant, Curry, Davis...yes. Possibly in the future, Embiid and Giannis.

Thats all I see in the NBA right now.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2018, 09:29:56 PM »

Offline footey

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
Transcendental stars who are basically ball handlers and drivers of the ball, in today's game of spread offenses and the importance of outside shooting, can not be a detriment to their team at the FT line or outside of 16 feet.

This isn't the 1980s through early 2000s. Completely different game.

I don't consider Russell Westbrook transcendental. Same for Harden. Paul.

Lebron, Durant, Curry, Davis...yes. Possibly in the future, Embiid and Giannis.

Thats all I see in the NBA right now.

Simmons could be more transcendent than Embiid in my book.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #131 on: April 16, 2018, 09:40:55 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Kevin O'Conner wrote this today, seems related:

Quote
The Sixers are in good hands with Brown. One of the misconceptions about the Process was that they were outright tanking with no focus on player development. But that’s not the case. Philadelphia doesn’t play any differently now than it did during its losing seasons.

Brown laid the groundwork for the team’s present success by installing a 3-point-shooting team that emphasized a fast pace and ball movement. Philly has ranked 20 or lower in deep-midrange shot frequency since Brown was hired as head coach in 2013-14, per Cleaning the Glass, while routinely ranking near the top of the NBA in 3-pointers per 100 possessions, per NBA.com/Stats. They’ve also ranked in the top seven in pace in each of Brown’s five seasons. The only thing that’s changed is the talent level. Sam Hinkie won every trade he made to add the talent, and Bryan Colangelo has added more complementary pieces like Redick and Marco Belinelli, but Brown also deserves a great deal of credit for laying the groundwork with a beautiful system.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #132 on: April 16, 2018, 10:01:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Looks like the check engine light may be coming on the 86ers bandwagon

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #133 on: April 16, 2018, 10:07:42 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.
For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line.
Different time...different game. I am not saying Simmons won't be a great player, but until he can shoot an outside shot and not be a complete liability to his team at the line, he's not transcendental. I don't see that as being a very controversial statement given how the game is played and how he plays. If Giannis(similar game) could only make 50% of his fts and was completely useless from outside, he wouldn't be anywhere near a 1st team All NBA.
you'd rather have Simmons shoot 28% on 1 5 shots a game from 3 rather then him shoot inside or oass the ball?
 That seems like an odd criticism. Maybe he should be Westbrook and bomb away at 31%. Knowing your limitations and playing to your strengths is not a weakness.  And if you dont like the Duncan comparison how about KG. Better FT shooter of course, but very similar build to Simmons and not an outside shooter at all.
Transcendental stars who are basically ball handlers and drivers of the ball, in today's game of spread offenses and the importance of outside shooting, can not be a detriment to their team at the FT line or outside of 16 feet.

This isn't the 1980s through early 2000s. Completely different game.

I don't consider Russell Westbrook transcendental. Same for Harden. Paul.

Lebron, Durant, Curry, Davis...yes. Possibly in the future, Embiid and Giannis.

Thats all I see in the NBA right now.

Simmons could be more transcendent than Embiid in my book.
Interesting. I can't really see this being the case unless Embiid is hit with injuries throughout his career. He's already the second best center in the league, and still has areas he can definitely improve (conditioning, IQ on the offensive end [i.e. attacking the post more, not settling for outside jumpshots], and knowing when to pass).
On the other hand, Simmons is probably a top 8 PG in the league (Westbrook, Curry, Irving, Paul, Harden, Lillard and Wall are all ahead of him imo), and his flaws are more significant - mainly his inability to score almost at all from the mid-range and perimeter.

It'll be interesting, but I can't see Simmons ever really being a legit MVP candidate guy - Embiid I can
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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #134 on: April 16, 2018, 10:17:28 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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