Author Topic: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?  (Read 3294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2018, 06:32:36 PM »

Offline footey

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7895
  • Tommy Points: 1016
In the current universe, the sac 19 is worth more than lal18 outright. It's not only expected to be a better number pick, the cap hit is delayed 1 year, and the draft odds restructuring happens next season. It's the Celtics that wouldn't agree to waiving protections. They never wanted lal18 unless it was 1 through 5.

Yes thank you Erik. I am pretty baffled that people don't understand this. The protections were for the Celtics benefit. If we wanted no protection we could have definitely had it (hey Philly we want the pick if the Lakers exceed expectations! Please let us). Furthermore, the outlook for the Kings has not gotten any better at all. They got rid of George Hill who was signed for two years as a capable NBA veteran. None of their young players (Hield, WCS, Skal) made a big leap this year. Fox looked extremely raw. On top of that NBA flattered the odds for the lottery and there is a chance high schoolers may be allowed in to the next draft. Yet somehow, despite all these things going in our favor, we would want to remove the protections we put on to protect ourselves and add to our cap crunch for next year over generalized impatience? I mean this is all pretty comical..

Of course the protection was for Boston's benefit that is why it should have been negotiated as an option to allow flexibility.

Agreed but Iíve never seen that done and wonder if CBA prohibits options.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2018, 08:24:04 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4083
  • Tommy Points: 364
In the current universe, the sac 19 is worth more than lal18 outright. It's not only expected to be a better number pick, the cap hit is delayed 1 year, and the draft odds restructuring happens next season. It's the Celtics that wouldn't agree to waiving protections. They never wanted lal18 unless it was 1 through 5.

Yes thank you Erik. I am pretty baffled that people don't understand this. The protections were for the Celtics benefit. If we wanted no protection we could have definitely had it (hey Philly we want the pick if the Lakers exceed expectations! Please let us). Furthermore, the outlook for the Kings has not gotten any better at all. They got rid of George Hill who was signed for two years as a capable NBA veteran. None of their young players (Hield, WCS, Skal) made a big leap this year. Fox looked extremely raw. On top of that NBA flattered the odds for the lottery and there is a chance high schoolers may be allowed in to the next draft. Yet somehow, despite all these things going in our favor, we would want to remove the protections we put on to protect ourselves and add to our cap crunch for next year over generalized impatience? I mean this is all pretty comical..

Of course the protection was for Boston's benefit that is why it should have been negotiated as an option to allow flexibility.

Agreed but Iíve never seen that done and wonder if CBA prohibits options.
As a number of posts have already stated, protections cannot be waived (or adjusted) by one of the teams.  That is not an option that can be negotiated.  It is just not allowed. 

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8089
  • Tommy Points: 957
Actually the OP was asking if the 2-5 protection could be waived, which it can't. The discussion devolved into which pick would you want and how to value each pick, especially as compared to each other. I think I would rather have the 10th pick this year. I think its a much better chance of getting the better overall player.
In other words, it should've been a 2 post thread.  OP and then "No".   ;)

The 2-5 is not a protection therefore my OP was not about the 2-5 but about the 6-30.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2018, 09:17:07 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2219
  • Tommy Points: 59
Of course they could. Itís called trading our Kings pick to Philly for their Lakers pick. Nothing stopping that if Philly wanted the deal.

Post of the day.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2018, 09:32:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33460
  • Tommy Points: 5516
Actually the OP was asking if the 2-5 protection could be waived, which it can't. The discussion devolved into which pick would you want and how to value each pick, especially as compared to each other. I think I would rather have the 10th pick this year. I think its a much better chance of getting the better overall player.
In other words, it should've been a 2 post thread.  OP and then "No".   ;)

The 2-5 is not a protection therefore my OP was not about the 2-5 but about the 6-30.
Sorry missed a word. Should have read 2-5 "only".

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2018, 10:05:37 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
We aren't going to trade a chance at a high lottery pick next season for the 10th pick this season when we are already so young. We will let it ride for another chance at something special. At the very least, the pick would have more trade value than rookie at #10 and the pick doesn't take up a roster spot or get paid.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2018, 11:21:47 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1227
  • Tommy Points: 11
I think the #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than the SAC pick(top 1 protected) next year. Regardless of whether you would rather save the roster spot or something this year, the further a pick is from actually conveying into a player, the less valuable it is. And there are a lot of uncertainties with the pick this far out. We don't know what the Kings will do in free agency or the draft. They might do something stupid like trade some young guys for vets so they can try to make the playoffs because they don't have their pick this year. It is the Sacremento Kings for God's sake. Plus there's the new lottery reform, which makes the draft an even bigger crapshoot.

Look at the potential prospects that are going to be at #10. 2 of these guys will be available. Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, and Mikal Bridges. Those are solid prospects. It's early, but the 2019 draft doesn't look nearly as strong as this one.
CB Mock Deadline - Minnesota Timberwolves
Kemba Walker / Tyus Jones / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Jamal Crawford / Treveon Graham
Rodney Hood / Nic Batum / Marcus Georges Hunt
Taj Gibson / Nemanja Bjelica / Jonas Jerebko
KAT / Derrick Favors / Cole Aldrich
Picks - 2018 CHA 1st (Lotto protected), none out

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2018, 12:04:56 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33460
  • Tommy Points: 5516
I think the #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than the SAC pick(top 1 protected) next year. Regardless of whether you would rather save the roster spot or something this year, the further a pick is from actually conveying into a player, the less valuable it is. And there are a lot of uncertainties with the pick this far out. We don't know what the Kings will do in free agency or the draft. They might do something stupid like trade some young guys for vets so they can try to make the playoffs because they don't have their pick this year. It is the Sacremento Kings for God's sake. Plus there's the new lottery reform, which makes the draft an even bigger crapshoot.

Look at the potential prospects that are going to be at #10. 2 of these guys will be available. Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, and Mikal Bridges. Those are solid prospects. It's early, but the 2019 draft doesn't look nearly as strong as this one.
Pretty much where I stand.

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2018, 11:16:23 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2217
  • Tommy Points: 269
I think the #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than the SAC pick(top 1 protected) next year. Regardless of whether you would rather save the roster spot or something this year, the further a pick is from actually conveying into a player, the less valuable it is. And there are a lot of uncertainties with the pick this far out. We don't know what the Kings will do in free agency or the draft. They might do something stupid like trade some young guys for vets so they can try to make the playoffs because they don't have their pick this year. It is the Sacremento Kings for God's sake. Plus there's the new lottery reform, which makes the draft an even bigger crapshoot.

Look at the potential prospects that are going to be at #10. 2 of these guys will be available. Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, and Mikal Bridges. Those are solid prospects. It's early, but the 2019 draft doesn't look nearly as strong as this one.

There's too much uncertainty to make a decent, educated guess as to the relative value of these picks. The lottery system enables big (albeit unlikely) jumps up the board, so the 10th worst team can get a top 5 pick, and the 5th worst team might get the 10th pick. We can't predict what pick will go to a particular team.

We also can't look at the HS Class of 2018 and predict which players will be good in their first year of college. We think that Zion and RJ will be near the top of the draft, but we're not sure...

Injuries add another level of complexity. As do team needs, FA signings, etc. etc. etc.

I think that the Celtics could pick a good player with either the LAL/SAC pick (whichever one conveys). I think we can try to guess which one we would rather have, but I don't consider this to be a very useful analysis. Way too much randomness....

Re: Can the Celtics waive their protection on the Laker pick?
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2018, 11:47:25 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4083
  • Tommy Points: 364
I think the #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than the SAC pick(top 1 protected) next year. Regardless of whether you would rather save the roster spot or something this year, the further a pick is from actually conveying into a player, the less valuable it is. And there are a lot of uncertainties with the pick this far out. We don't know what the Kings will do in free agency or the draft. They might do something stupid like trade some young guys for vets so they can try to make the playoffs because they don't have their pick this year. It is the Sacremento Kings for God's sake. Plus there's the new lottery reform, which makes the draft an even bigger crapshoot.

Look at the potential prospects that are going to be at #10. 2 of these guys will be available. Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, and Mikal Bridges. Those are solid prospects. It's early, but the 2019 draft doesn't look nearly as strong as this one.

There's too much uncertainty to make a decent, educated guess as to the relative value of these picks. The lottery system enables big (albeit unlikely) jumps up the board, so the 10th worst team can get a top 5 pick, and the 5th worst team might get the 10th pick. We can't predict what pick will go to a particular team.

We also can't look at the HS Class of 2018 and predict which players will be good in their first year of college. We think that Zion and RJ will be near the top of the draft, but we're not sure...

Injuries add another level of complexity. As do team needs, FA signings, etc. etc. etc.

I think that the Celtics could pick a good player with either the LAL/SAC pick (whichever one conveys). I think we can try to guess which one we would rather have, but I don't consider this to be a very useful analysis. Way too much randomness....
Only the top 3 picks (top 4 starting next year) are decided by the lottery.  The 10th worst team could jump into the top 3 but it cannot jump to 4th through 9th.  The 5th worst team can currently fall no lower than 8th (9th starting next year). 

There is not too much randomness to do an assessment.  It is a GMs job to do those type of assessments.  All the evaluations of the 2019 draft that I've seen are that it projects to be a weak draft.  If things break well, maybe it becomes an average draft.  The one significant variable would be if the NBA did away with the one and done rule.