Author Topic: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So  (Read 4798 times)

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Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2018, 06:59:27 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I am sure Dwayne Wade has our best interests at heart.

Exactly .......

he bleeds GREEN !

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2018, 07:10:01 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.

I mean, that wasn’t exactly the boldest basketball move I’ve ever seen. It was a “hey, I’m a great player, lemme get my buddy the best player in the world to come to South Beach (because he can’t beat Boston in Cleveland) and while we’re at it Pat, sign my other buddy Chris” kinda move.

Since then, he went to Chicago, fail.

Opted-in with Chicago, instafail.

Ran to LeBron, megafail.

Crawled back to Miami with his tail between his legs.

He opted in with Chicago because there was no way in hell he was gonna get $23.8 million on the open market.  It'd would've been idiotic to pass up that.  That's not a fail.  He ended up giving back $8-9 million of it via buyout but $15-16 million when your career is at the end of the road is a savvy business move of self interest, not a fail.

Yeah, getting paid that much, plus ending up back in Miami where he is embraced, was a pretty great outcome for him.


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Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2018, 11:06:50 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2018, 12:02:03 PM »

Offline td450

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable. 

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2018, 12:05:44 PM »

Offline Erik

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2018, 12:16:06 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2018, 12:20:41 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.

Brown will always have the better vertical and athleticism.

I would rather keep both... But I would be okay with Brown or Tatum being used as the main trade piece for Kawhi, only if he decides to officially buy in to our team's philosophy.
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It's based on your perspective, quite simply
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2018, 12:21:14 PM »

Offline playdream

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.
Yeah Brown year 1 is a better defender than Tatum year 1

Oops

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2018, 12:38:13 PM »

Offline Erik

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Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2018, 12:47:23 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Anyone that wants to trade Tatum should review the development of the Greek Freak's body after three years of NBA strength program. If Tatum can develop his body to compare with the bodies of Gianni's and Kawhi...watch out!!

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2018, 12:56:01 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Brown is elite among starters in FG% differential, holding opponents to 5.8 percentage points below their averages. He’s an outstanding defender, certainly better than Tatum right now.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1


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Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2018, 12:58:49 PM »

Offline td450

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Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.
They are both exciting prospects. Tatum has been the better shooter, and Brown the better defender, but both guys have become quite good at both.

Both guys have a ways to go before they become dominant one on one players, but Brown is much better at finishing through contact, and can finish with either hand, while Tatum is still very right handed, and still has trouble with contact.

Both guys are athletic, hard working, have excellent poise, play with intelligence and are confident, but Jaylen has an advantage over Tatum in all those areas.  There probably isn't anyone in the NBA that is both taller and either quicker or faster, and he's also one of the stronger young players in the league. He has Russell Westbrook level athleticism.

I'm very excited to see both guys in the playoffs. They both have stayed within their roles most of the year, and now they are being forced to carry the team. It will be fun to watch.


Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2018, 01:03:17 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

To the eye test, at least to me, Brown is better. And he has a bigger effect on opposing player FG% than Tatum (-5.8 to -2.0). Brown usually defends the other team's best scoring wing or shooting guard.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 01:09:29 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2018, 01:06:25 PM »

Offline Erik

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Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Brown is elite among starters in FG% differential, holding opponents to 5.8 percentage points below their averages. He’s an outstanding defender, certainly better than Tatum right now.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

How does this stat project players on teams that allow a free drive to the lane into help defense like the Celtics defense does? What is the definition of who is guarding the player? The player who initially guarded him or the player who guarded the shot ?  Can it isolate the player or is it team defense driven?

I'm calling it into question because Isaiah Thomas is on page 3 at -2.7% which seems awfully inaccurate given he c ant block or contest any shot.

Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2018, 01:10:28 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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There is only one player that Danny would trade Brown or Tatum for and we all know who that is. Unless Danny believes Kawhi to have Curry/Durant like impact, there is no way he is parting with our young studs unless the player coming back is named Davis. We need a big to match our division rival's big for the next decade.

But then again, If Danny has a "thing" for Kawhi all bets are off. Danny also wanted the often injured Curry many years ago as well and many were skeptical to do that kind of trade back then due to the injury risk.

Personally, I want to keep both Brown and Tatum and watch them flourish in Green and would not do a trade for Kawhi. Davis, I would not love it, but would definitely consider it strongly as it is a position of need for us and would make us unstoppable. I dont believe NO is getting rid of Davis anytime soon though unless Davis has privately told them he is bolting at the first chance.