Author Topic: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors  (Read 11057 times)

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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2018, 12:13:26 AM »

Offline gouki88

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If there were no salary matching rules and no luxury tax, we’d have to make that trade. Kawhi is a top-5 player.
Top 5 players play

Eh. We saw what happened when IT played through pain. There’s probably a lesson there.  His toughness and loyalty to the team cost him tens of millions.

Conversely, we’re seeing a top-15 player (Kyrie) decide not to play through pain in order to take care of his body.

Being ultra-conservative while protecting an asset (in this case, Kawhi’s long-term health) is not necessarily a character flaw.
Wasn't it a quad thing and he was due back in January or something? I just don't see it as the same thing. I feel this is closer to holding out than being very careful. If he has to be that careful it makes me think he's injury prone.

I don't see Danny and Brad moving on a guy whose entourage calls his shots.  I imagine Pop will fix it.

Already having a two way stud like Brown who fits in with the culture the C's are building, it seems out  of character for Danny to bring in a distraction.
You bet, Brad and Pop are the commander and they will NOT allow their solders to not follow orders, no matter how good you are as a single.
That's why we traded Rondo, Passed on Cousins and Butler, it's all about team culture, ubuntu, all for one one for all, you can't be selfish and only think about your money and let your brothers die on the battlefield.

Yet they traded for a guy who forced his way off of a title contender, and traded for another guy who caused some locker room issues in Phoenix and who was facing felony assault charges.

Roy, just curious, but IF the offer was something like Brown, Morris, Rozier, two of Ojeyele/Nader/Yabusele (salary) and 2 future 1st rounders (one being Kings Pick OR Grizzlies), AND Kawhi is willing to stay here long term, are you telling me you'd do that or no?

I'm still iffy as whatever has been bugging Kawhi (injury) has practically kept him out all season. Probably not a great sign.

In a second, and I’ve been a huge Brown supporter since day one.

So Kyrie, Kawhi, Hayward, Al & Tatum, and everything else rookie or vet min contracts gets you closer to a championship than what we have now?  That is a lot of salary loaded into 5 guys...106 mil.  If the salary cap is 108 mil how many other guys do we need to jetison? 

2018-2019 salary
KI - 19mil
Kawhi- 20mil
Hayward - 31 mil
Al - 29 mil

I am not saying I wouldn't do it.  I would be crying to trade Jaylen Brown though.  I would hate to watch him become an all-star somewhere else.  I would also be worried about us crashing and burning with an injury or two.

Yes, trading for an MVP candidate improves the team.

Horford / Monroe
Kawhi / Theis
Tatum
Hayward
Kyrie / Smart

The team would need to use the Taxpayer MLE on a backup wing, and Wyc would need to commit to paying the tax for the foreseeable future, but that team is a contender.

I’d be equally happy with Jaylen instead of Tatum.
That team is freakin' unstoppable.
5 37%+ shooters from three who can all pass, the best wing defender in the league, Al Horford (a strong defender himself) and a lineup who can switch on everything.

Monroe off the bench would be awesome too, assuming his supporting cast is built right

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2018, 12:59:38 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I am a big fan of Kawhi. He's def top 10 player, but not top 5 in my eyes. There are a bunch of young guys on good deals, and Tatum is one of them. I don't think Tatum will become Jordan, but he does have Carmelo/Pierce potential. I'd hate to give up on that early.

Players I would trade Tatum for without thinking (straight up):

Lebron
KD
Steph
Harden
Westbrook
Davis
Giannis
Embiid

After this, I'm pausing to think for these guys:

Leonard
Towns
Klay
Draymond
Butler
Wall
George
Cousins
Simmons

I don't think I ever would have been this picky about Tatum before this season.

Wait what?? You'd actually *pause & consider* trading Tatum for freakin' Draymond??!?!?!??!!

Draymond?? LOL. If that's who we are trading Tatum for then I give up.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2018, 01:22:02 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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I am a big fan of Kawhi. He's def top 10 player, but not top 5 in my eyes. There are a bunch of young guys on good deals, and Tatum is one of them. I don't think Tatum will become Jordan, but he does have Carmelo/Pierce potential. I'd hate to give up on that early.

Players I would trade Tatum for without thinking (straight up):

Lebron
KD
Steph
Harden
Westbrook
Davis
Giannis
Embiid

After this, I'm pausing to think for these guys:

Leonard
Towns
Klay
Draymond
Butler
Wall
George
Cousins
Simmons

I don't think I ever would have been this picky about Tatum before this season.

Wait what?? You'd actually *pause & consider* trading Tatum for freakin' Draymond??!?!?!??!!

Draymond?? LOL. If that's who we are trading Tatum for then I give up.

Draymond is an overrated bum who got exposed for who he is without his three buddies. I hate that guy as a person and as a player. Always like to rain on PP34 parade for no reason lol.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2018, 01:45:13 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I am a big fan of Kawhi. He's def top 10 player, but not top 5 in my eyes. There are a bunch of young guys on good deals, and Tatum is one of them. I don't think Tatum will become Jordan, but he does have Carmelo/Pierce potential. I'd hate to give up on that early.

Players I would trade Tatum for without thinking (straight up):

Lebron
KD
Steph
Harden
Westbrook
Davis
Giannis
Embiid

After this, I'm pausing to think for these guys:

Leonard
Towns
Klay
Draymond
Butler
Wall
George
Cousins
Simmons

I don't think I ever would have been this picky about Tatum before this season.

Wait what?? You'd actually *pause & consider* trading Tatum for freakin' Draymond??!?!?!??!!

Draymond?? LOL. If that's who we are trading Tatum for then I give up.

Draymond is an overrated bum who got exposed for who he is without his three buddies. I hate that guy as a person and as a player. Always like to rain on PP34 parade for no reason lol.
TP to the both of you. Hate Draymond

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2018, 02:19:58 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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On another note, is a Leonard trade I'd almost rather give up Tatum than Brown in some ways as i think Brown would better fit the resulting team. Tatum's would be at best the third fiddle on a team with Irving and Leonard, and probably fourth for the next couple years behind Hayward which minimizes the useful of his scoring skill. If all you are asking is to hit spot up threes and drive close outs Brown can do that well enough. In that group I'd prefer Browns ability to D up guards as well.

Listen, the bottom line is this. If the question is would you trade Brown/Tatum straight up for a healthy Leonard the right answer is yes. Guys like that just dont come along often, and teams dont win championships without at least one guy of that caliber. Ultimately if it doesn't happen I wont be upset about it either, this team will be fun to watch either way and developing Brown/Tatum is a pretty nice path forward.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2018, 03:16:20 AM »

Offline playdream

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If there were no salary matching rules and no luxury tax, we’d have to make that trade. Kawhi is a top-5 player.
Top 5 players play

Eh. We saw what happened when IT played through pain. There’s probably a lesson there.  His toughness and loyalty to the team cost him tens of millions.

Conversely, we’re seeing a top-15 player (Kyrie) decide not to play through pain in order to take care of his body.

Being ultra-conservative while protecting an asset (in this case, Kawhi’s long-term health) is not necessarily a character flaw.
Wasn't it a quad thing and he was due back in January or something? I just don't see it as the same thing. I feel this is closer to holding out than being very careful. If he has to be that careful it makes me think he's injury prone.

I don't see Danny and Brad moving on a guy whose entourage calls his shots.  I imagine Pop will fix it.

Already having a two way stud like Brown who fits in with the culture the C's are building, it seems out  of character for Danny to bring in a distraction.
You bet, Brad and Pop are the commander and they will NOT allow their solders to not follow orders, no matter how good you are as a single.
That's why we traded Rondo, Passed on Cousins and Butler, it's all about team culture, ubuntu, all for one one for all, you can't be selfish and only think about your money and let your brothers die on the battlefield.

Yet they traded for a guy who forced his way off of a title contender, and traded for another guy who caused some locker room issues in Phoenix and who was facing felony assault charges.
First one i don't see problem if he is joining another title contender, apparently that team he runs away did not have ubuntu mentality
second one it's true they take on a risk, but it's a rather small one if he didn't follow order you can afford to cut him, not so for a 40+M/y one.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2018, 08:31:12 AM »

Offline eja117

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To me Tatum is clearly the best player in his draft class and he's 20, and you have him for cheap money for years. He's basically an untouchable. If I'm gonna trade him it's not for damaged goods, it's for generational talent. Basically the names I need to be hearing on the other end need to be stuff like Anthony Davis or Durant. Not Kawhi. There's a big drop off there.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2018, 09:09:48 AM »

Offline Celtic Fan Forever

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To me Tatum is clearly the best player in his draft class and he's 20, and you have him for cheap money for years. He's basically an untouchable. If I'm gonna trade him it's not for damaged goods, it's for generational talent. Basically the names I need to be hearing on the other end need to be stuff like Anthony Davis or Durant. Not Kawhi. There's a big drop off there.

Strongly disagree. Kawhi is a top 5 NBA player when healthy, and all indications are that he will be next year.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2018, 09:29:48 AM »

Offline gouki88

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To me Tatum is clearly the best player in his draft class and he's 20, and you have him for cheap money for years. He's basically an untouchable. If I'm gonna trade him it's not for damaged goods, it's for generational talent. Basically the names I need to be hearing on the other end need to be stuff like Anthony Davis or Durant. Not Kawhi. There's a big drop off there.
No, there isn't.

A lot of people have a top 5 of LeBron, Durant, Harden, AD and Kawhi. Not sure who else you'd put there ahead of him

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2018, 09:31:42 AM »

Offline Somebody

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AD/Giannis only, everyone else can **** off for Tatum
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2018, 09:39:53 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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To me Tatum is clearly the best player in his draft class and he's 20, and you have him for cheap money for years. He's basically an untouchable. If I'm gonna trade him it's not for damaged goods, it's for generational talent. Basically the names I need to be hearing on the other end need to be stuff like Anthony Davis or Durant. Not Kawhi. There's a big drop off there.

Once upon a time, Chicago fans and management took the same position with Deng and Hinrich. The Clippers decided Shaun Livingston was untouchable. Sometimes, development doesn’t work out like you’d hope.

Also, I know it’s bladphemy around here, but is Tatum head and shoulders above everyone else in the draft? He’s 6th in rookie scoring, I think. I love his feel for the game, but nothing guarantees that he’ll be an all-star, let alone an All-NBA first-teamer.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2018, 09:41:21 AM »

Online Androslav

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AD/Giannis only, everyone else can **** off for Tatum
I felt that way a month ago.
Now...not that sure;
a franchise player,
a possible no.1 option on a contender,
with no injury history,
smart and good kid,
cost-controlled asset,
good chemistry with the rest of the team

Let's not sell our future legends.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2018, 09:48:57 AM »

Offline Somebody

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AD/Giannis only, everyone else can **** off for Tatum
I felt that way a month ago.
Now...not that sure;
a franchise player,
a possible no.1 option on a contender,
with no injury history,
smart and good kid,
cost-controlled asset,
good chemistry with the rest of the team

Let's not sell our future legends.
I was meaning that only those two wouldn't mean an immediate hang up
****cago Bull****

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2018, 10:18:51 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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To me Tatum is clearly the best player in his draft class and he's 20, and you have him for cheap money for years. He's basically an untouchable. If I'm gonna trade him it's not for damaged goods, it's for generational talent. Basically the names I need to be hearing on the other end need to be stuff like Anthony Davis or Durant. Not Kawhi. There's a big drop off there.

Once upon a time, Chicago fans and management took the same position with Deng and Hinrich. The Clippers decided Shaun Livingston was untouchable. Sometimes, development doesn’t work out like you’d hope.

Also, I know it’s bladphemy around here, but is Tatum head and shoulders above everyone else in the draft? He’s 6th in rookie scoring, I think. I love his feel for the game, but nothing guarantees that he’ll be an all-star, let alone an All-NBA first-teamer.

Did you seriously just compare Tatum to Deng Hinrich and Livingston? Even comparing the situation to that is just mind blowing. Those are rotation guys and were NEVER EVER EVER even by the mostly insanely passionate NBA fans considered generational talent.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2018, 10:20:00 AM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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Consider salaries when thinking about trading for Leonard.

Right now the Celtics are in a pretty good spot, or at least a manageable one, when it comes to the salary cap. To retain Irving, you'll have to sign him to a mega huge contract starting in 2020/21 (around $40m/year if I'm not mistaken). But the good news is that Horford's last year of his current contract is the year before, meaning that you can let him go in free agency or sign him at a reduced number and still not kill yourself in the tax. Then the next year (prior to 2021/22) both Hayward (unrestricted) and J. Brown (restricted) will be free agents, meaning you have discretion on whether or not to sign one or both. Hayward will be in his early 30s by then, so maybe you re-sign him at slightly less than the max at that point. Then the next year, prior to the 2022/23 season, Tatum is a RFA.

The point is, the Celtics are in a really good spot where they have both prime-age stars (Irving, Horford, Hayward) assisted by rookie contract stars (Brown, Tatum). As the first category's max contracts roll off, you have that second generation coming due. Leonard alters that completely. It's not to say it's a mistake, but you have to be clear that trading for him hitches the wagon completely to Irving and Leonard, especially if you're giving up Tatum in a trade.

The other thing to consider is how a lineup of Irving, Leonard, Tatum, Hayward, and Horford would match up defensively with most teams. I think all three of Leonard, Tatum, and Hayward are closer to 4s already than they are to 2s at this point in their careers, and they'll definitely trend towards being bigger and slower as they age. In other words, you basically have three biggish small forwards coupled with a below-average defensive point guard, which might get eaten up by the Lillards/McCollums and Currys/Thompsons of the world.
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