Poll

If you're Ainge, do you keep Rozier for another season to contend for a title? Or trade for an asset?

This bench (as constituted now) is invaluable. Ainge should preserve it and and pursue a championship
13 (26%)
Rozier is good, but not irreplaceable. Ainge should shop him as a trade piece and see what he can get for him
23 (46%)
I like what Rozier provides. I'd wait up to the trade deadline next season. But otherwise, keep him on the team.
14 (28%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: What to do w/ Rozier in offseason. Trade for an asset? Or keep for a title run?  (Read 8768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline vjcsmoke

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3173
  • Tommy Points: 182
All I can say is I'm glad I'm not Danny Ainge.  Not an easy call.

It is actually easy.  You try to extend him cheap, and if he declines you assess the trade market for him next year.  If no trade, then you give him the qualifying offer, see what he gets on the market, and match it if the money makes sense.

Same thing he is doing with Smart this year.

I do like the extension plan for Rozier.  If he takes a reasonably good extension.  That gives the Celtics more time to evaluate his true worth and they can still trade him later if need be in a mega deal. ie ADavis.

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
Dunn + Lavine + Markannen for Butler. No all-stars, but a few solid pieces.
Markannen is at least as good (and possibly even better) than Brown and Tatum. Whether you knew that at the time of the trade is an open question, but there's no denying it after the fact.

Also, Davis is a lot better than Butler.


Oladipo + Sabonis for George. Anyone think that Oladipo had more upside last year than Rozier does this year?
Just about everyone who paid attention. Oladipo was a 24-year-old former #2 overall pick on the tail end of three solid seasons. While no-one really expected him to turn into a do-it-all go-to guy, any comparison with Terry Three-Dash is laughable.

Moreover, George didn't exactly help his trade value by allowing those LA rumors to linger. Are we waiting for Davis to ask for a trade or something?

Hield, Evans (expiring), Galloway, a 1st, (mid-round) and a 2nd for Cousins. No all-stars.
No-one in the NBA really wants Cousins and his baggage. I'd bet you that a roll of the dice on 23yo Buddy Hield  coming off of a breakout season (where he was a bit more productive than Jaylen Brown, albeit in the Sacramento purgatory) was the best that they could get.
 
Bradley (expiring), Harris, Boban, and a 1st (mid-round) for Griffin. No all-stars, but a few solid starters.
Blake Griffin has averaged fewer than 60 games a season since 2014. This deal is probably pennies on the dollar if he stays healthy.... but it's a considerable if.

In a neutral market, a team might be happy to get Rozier, Yabu, contract filler, and the Kings pick.
This is not happening. It isn't happening now, and it probably wouldn't be happening even if Davis had declared his intent to walk in free agency (if he weren't locked up by 2021, that is...).

Markanen as good as Brown and/or Tatum? Can't agree with you there.

I always like Oladipo, but it would be intellectually dishonest for anyone to say that they thought last year he'd be this good.

Quote from you on this page
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=92213.255

Quote
Victor Oladipo is better than anyone they could have gotten in exchange for a potential one-year George rental. He did manage to average 16ppg on a team that had Russell Westbrook. Sabonis is a decent young prospect.

The Pacers did alright here.

I can tell you thought better of Oladipo than most did, but I doubt you had any idea he would be this good. To say he is comparable to Rozier is not a stretch. Athleticism, length, and shooting are comparable.

Rozier's per 36 this season is 16, 6, 4, 1.5 on 40/39/77 shooting splits.
Oladipo's per 36 from his age 23 season were 17, 5, 4, 2 on 44/35/83 shooting splits

I don't disagree that the Griffin and Cousins situations were a bit unique, but they fall in line with the pattern from the other big trades.

The difference, as you noted, is the contract years remaining. That probably just means no trade will happen.

You can just say "this is not happening" all you want. Fact remains that Rozier, Yabu, and a high draft pick is a comparable value to these other trade packages for a star player. The difference is that we have more elite talent on the roster that other GMs will get greedy for.

Offline __ramonezy__

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 523
  • Tommy Points: 62
To be honest, Rozier adds a scoring punch and pace to the second unit that I think is invaluable for us making the next step as a team.

In all this I think Smart actually proves expendable, as the combination of Rozay and Semi can more than make up for the defensive loss of Smart.

That being said, if we can bring the entire band back for a legitimate run next season I'd roll the dice on that... this is a championship-caliber team if healthy.

Offline feckless

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Tommy Points: 93
To be honest, Rozier adds a scoring punch and pace to the second unit that I think is invaluable for us making the next step as a team.

In all this I think Smart actually proves expendable, as the combination of Rozay and Semi can more than make up for the defensive loss of Smart.

That being said, if we can bring the entire band back for a legitimate run next season I'd roll the dice on that... this is a championship-caliber team if healthy.

I agree!
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Markanen as good as Brown and/or Tatum? Can't agree with you there.
Markkanen is big, skilled, and looked every bit as poised starting as a rookie as Tatum did. Perhaps he doesn't have Tatum's versatility, but he looked great playng next to both bigger

(Lopez, Felicio) and smaller (Portis, Mirotic) guys. And skilled bigs are always at a premium. 15 and 7.5 as a 20yo rookie is nothing to sneeze at, I think. Talent wise I think he's par or close to par with our guys, what might give him the edge is his position.


I always like Oladipo, but it would be intellectually dishonest for anyone to say that they thought last year he'd be this good.

Quote from you on this page
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=92213.255

Quote
Victor Oladipo is better than anyone they could have gotten in exchange for a potential one-year George rental. He did manage to average 16ppg on a team that had Russell Westbrook. Sabonis is a decent young prospect.

The Pacers did alright here.

I can tell you thought better of Oladipo than most did, but I doubt you had any idea he would be this good. To say he is comparable to Rozier is not a stretch. Athleticism, length, and shooting are comparable.

Rozier's per 36 this season is 16, 6, 4, 1.5 on 40/39/77 shooting splits.
Oladipo's per 36 from his age 23 season were 17, 5, 4, 2 on 44/35/83 shooting splits

I don't disagree that the Griffin and Cousins situations were a bit unique, but they fall in line with the pattern from the other big trades.

The difference, as you noted, is the contract years remaining. That probably just means no trade will happen.

You can just say "this is not happening" all you want. Fact remains that Rozier, Yabu, and a high draft pick is a comparable value to these other trade packages for a star player. The difference is that we have more elite talent on the roster that other GMs will get greedy for.
I don't claim that I thought that Oladipo will turn into a monster. But I don't think it's honest to compare him to Rozier, who's got a month and a half as a full time player, and the best month of his career is probably still worse than Oladipo's worst (non-rookie) season.

I'm not saying Rozier isn't going to be a great player for us (or someone else), but I don't think they're comparable in terms of upside. In my mind, Rozier still needs to take a step to prove that he can consistently be as good as Oladipo in his pre-Indiana days (and that probably includes not shooting 40% from the floor).

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, so what do I know...
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Offline blackbird

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 360
  • Tommy Points: 64
Who is going to trade for him? Doesn't seem to be a position of need for very many teams.

Orlando? Denver? Phoenix? San Antonio? I think that's about it...

Just seems unlikely that anyone would give up much for him. More valuable to keep him.

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
Who is going to trade for him? Doesn't seem to be a position of need for very many teams.

Orlando? Denver? Phoenix? San Antonio? I think that's about it...

Just seems unlikely that anyone would give up much for him. More valuable to keep him.

The best thing to do is trade Rozier to the team most likely to sign Smart to a big contract. That way we get a solid asset for Rozier and keep Smart for a nice price  ;D

Offline Evantime34

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11942
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • Eagerly Awaiting the Next Fantasy Draft
The question in large part has to do with how good you think the Celtics will be next year. If Lebron leaves the east and the C's have good health they could be competing for a title.

If the C's are in the general realm of a title they should go above and beyond the cap to keep all their assets. If that's the case then you keep him.

I believe the C's will be competing for a title next year so I think they should re-sign Smart and plan to keep Rozier long term.
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
You know what - screw it. If Rozier keeps playing like this throughout the postseason, who even needs Kyrie, and Hayward, for that matter, ahahaha?

Granted, the following lineup would have to be the worst passing combination 1-4 in the entire league, lol, but I'd be interested to see as to how well the following group would perform for an entire year, including the postseason -

Rozier
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Horford

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
Markanen as good as Brown and/or Tatum? Can't agree with you there.
Markkanen is big, skilled, and looked every bit as poised starting as a rookie as Tatum did. Perhaps he doesn't have Tatum's versatility, but he looked great playng next to both bigger

(Lopez, Felicio) and smaller (Portis, Mirotic) guys. And skilled bigs are always at a premium. 15 and 7.5 as a 20yo rookie is nothing to sneeze at, I think. Talent wise I think he's par or close to par with our guys, what might give him the edge is his position.


I always like Oladipo, but it would be intellectually dishonest for anyone to say that they thought last year he'd be this good.

Quote from you on this page
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=92213.255

Quote
Victor Oladipo is better than anyone they could have gotten in exchange for a potential one-year George rental. He did manage to average 16ppg on a team that had Russell Westbrook. Sabonis is a decent young prospect.

The Pacers did alright here.

I can tell you thought better of Oladipo than most did, but I doubt you had any idea he would be this good. To say he is comparable to Rozier is not a stretch. Athleticism, length, and shooting are comparable.

Rozier's per 36 this season is 16, 6, 4, 1.5 on 40/39/77 shooting splits.
Oladipo's per 36 from his age 23 season were 17, 5, 4, 2 on 44/35/83 shooting splits

I don't disagree that the Griffin and Cousins situations were a bit unique, but they fall in line with the pattern from the other big trades.

The difference, as you noted, is the contract years remaining. That probably just means no trade will happen.

You can just say "this is not happening" all you want. Fact remains that Rozier, Yabu, and a high draft pick is a comparable value to these other trade packages for a star player. The difference is that we have more elite talent on the roster that other GMs will get greedy for.
I don't claim that I thought that Oladipo will turn into a monster. But I don't think it's honest to compare him to Rozier, who's got a month and a half as a full time player, and the best month of his career is probably still worse than Oladipo's worst (non-rookie) season.

I'm not saying Rozier isn't going to be a great player for us (or someone else), but I don't think they're comparable in terms of upside. In my mind, Rozier still needs to take a step to prove that he can consistently be as good as Oladipo in his pre-Indiana days (and that probably includes not shooting 40% from the floor).

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, so what do I know...

Gotchya.

Again, the stats that I gave if Rozier on the season are comparable to olafipo’s from the same age.

Offline GRADYCOLNON

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 327
  • Tommy Points: 26
Here's my view on this: are you really going to trade a guy that will probably give you 12-15 ppg, 4-5 rpg, 4-5 ast per games at league average shooting who is making less than $2 million a year for a draft pick who in 3 years time MIGHT never give you the same production as Rozier is giving you right now and who might never exceed any of those expectations in the next 6-8 years?

Not sure who is suggesting we trade him for a pick. I think most would want to use him in a bigger package or for a big.

A forward-thinking GM could see something in him and be willing to part with a star if he is included.

Perhaps it’s too small a sample size, but he’s averaging nearly 19/6/5 as a starter. Let’s say he keeps that average throughout the final 6 games and perhaps into the playoffs for as long as he’s a starter... that’s now over a quarter of a season. It’s somewhat conceivable to see an Oladipo-like leap from him in a larger role. Not that I’m saying he’s as good as VO, but that he can make a similar improvement.

Now I don’t think he can be the centerpiece in nabbing Davis or Leonard if either were to become available.... but he could be the missing piece to get it done.
First, over other trade Rozier and be a forward thinking GM threads on this site, Rozier is being traded with picks for a high draft pick this year. It's not an uncommon idea and is probably the most suggested "trade Rozier" idea.

Second, in trading Rozier for a star, the problem is, he probably is low in the importance of who you are giving up simply because of how little money he makes. He won't be the centerpiece for a high priced star because he makes so little which means he will most likely be a throw in in a much larger deal which includes higher salary players, which diminishes his overall value.

If you're going to trade Rozier for full value, you are really best off resigning him to 4 year deal and trafing him off in year one or sign and trading him. His value had become so much higher than his salary that its hard to trade him without getting equal value back.

This is the move.  Originally, I thought trading Rozier would be a good way to capitalize on potentially lost value.  Independently, I came up with something similar.  In 2019, Irving and Horford will have player options, and entering our first season in the luxury tax (assuming we stay out in 2018) we can afford to keep spending to bring back Rozier.  We can pay him, not max, but enough to retain his rights.  And just like you suggested send him out after a season.  He'll be 26 years old, and ready for another team to give him a starting job.  I think his value will be significantly higher in two seasons.  The side benefit is that our bench has been solidified, at least for scoring and hustle.

Offline Rosco917

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6108
  • Tommy Points: 559
I couldn't make a decision...I guess I'm leaning towards keeping both Rozier and Smart and going for the whole ball of wax with a healthy Celtic team next year. I honestly feel next year with a little luck we can beat anyone... from what this team has shown us this year.

Offline Celtic_Pride777

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 325
  • Tommy Points: 35
I'm changing my vote to "trading Rozier." The Cs need to capitalize on his postseason play. After offseason, his stock will never be as high as it is right now

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
Flip him for a 5-10 pick.....do it quick lol

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
Still think his best value will come as a trade chip but he's fun as heck to watch when he's on.  Been a great asset to this team this season and been awesome to see his growth.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team