Author Topic: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup  (Read 2531 times)

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PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« on: April 01, 2018, 11:28:17 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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Currently ranked outside of the 1st round.  Mainly due to age (Junior), average wingspan and OK regular season production.   But having a stellar NCAA march madness run.  Has helped his team reach the championship vs Villanova.

Showing up for the March Madness helps, but I think he would be a excellent fit under CBS system.  Mobile, can shoot the 3, can pass, has good IQ, good motor.  Strong body but needs to improve on rebounding consistency. Not much of a shot blocker. 

Highlight from final four game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTN21xV27cY     
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 12:00:46 PM by triboy16f »

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2018, 12:04:20 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Currently ranked outside of the 1st round.  Mainly due to age (Junior), average wingspan and OK regular season production. 

Think about what you wrote and then add the fact that he's a below average rebounder and isn't a rim protector.

Every year you fall for players based on a few tournament games.

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2018, 12:14:06 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Currently ranked outside of the 1st round.  Mainly due to age (Junior), average wingspan and OK regular season production. 

Think about what you wrote and then add the fact that he's a below average rebounder and isn't a rim protector.

Every year you fall for players based on a few tournament games.

list me the players I have..

What about you? you fall in love with players like Cliff Alexandre, Dragan Bender... lol


At the late 20s spot, you can't find an all around optimal prospect.   Why don't you digest on that ...

At the end of the day even with some shortcomings, Moritz is a 6'11 big body that can fit under CBS.  Would be a better fit than Yabusele for example

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 12:33:11 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Currently ranked outside of the 1st round.  Mainly due to age (Junior), average wingspan and OK regular season production. 

Think about what you wrote and then add the fact that he's a below average rebounder and isn't a rim protector.

Every year you fall for players based on a few tournament games.

list me the players I have..

What about you? you fall in love with players like Cliff Alexandre, Dragan Bender... lol


At the late 20s spot, you can't find an all around optimal prospect.   Why don't you digest on that ...

At the end of the day even with some shortcomings, Moritz is a 6'11 big body that can fit under CBS.  Would be a better fit than Yabusele for example

You constantly overrate college level competition, which is why you miss the boat on how their games will translate. It's why you fell in love with Mickey, and thought guys like Kaminsky and Sabonis would dominate at the next level. Yabusele would dominate D1 level competition and completely eat up Wagner.

I'd actually like us to take Bruce Brown (local kid who is a very athletic player, but had an injury plagued year) or Diallo (lower floor than Brown, but another great athlete with insane length). At #27 in the draft, I'd like us to swing for the fences with some high upside guys. Wagner is low ceiling player that at very best will be a journeyman big stuck at the end of a roster.

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 01:01:53 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Currently ranked outside of the 1st round.  Mainly due to age (Junior), average wingspan and OK regular season production. 

Think about what you wrote and then add the fact that he's a below average rebounder and isn't a rim protector.

Every year you fall for players based on a few tournament games.

list me the players I have..

What about you? you fall in love with players like Cliff Alexandre, Dragan Bender... lol


At the late 20s spot, you can't find an all around optimal prospect.   Why don't you digest on that ...

At the end of the day even with some shortcomings, Moritz is a 6'11 big body that can fit under CBS.  Would be a better fit than Yabusele for example

You constantly overrate college level competition, which is why you miss the boat on how their games will translate. It's why you fell in love with Mickey, and thought guys like Kaminsky and Sabonis would dominate at the next level. Yabusele would dominate D1 level competition and completely eat up Wagner.

I'd actually like us to take Bruce Brown (local kid who is a very athletic player, but had an injury plagued year) or Diallo (lower floor than Brown, but another great athlete with insane length). At #27 in the draft, I'd like us to swing for the fences with some high upside guys. Wagner is low ceiling player that at very best will be a journeyman big stuck at the end of a roster.

its the same deal with you

high upside nonsense...

how many HIGH upside prospects at late 20s or in the 2nd round have become anything but a D leaguer?

1 out of 60 maybe become something

Its the Malcom Brogdons of the worlds who are the good picks around this range.  IF the Celts had a 1st to burn or something...ok fine, take a chance.  But this is their only 1st this season

Moritz is the kind of prospect that fits the bill. Even Grayson Allen would be better choice than Diallo

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 03:05:34 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.
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Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 03:09:12 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Double post. Celticsblog has had some real connection issues lately.
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Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 03:21:26 PM »

Offline liam

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If The Celtics could pick up an early 2nd round pick i could see Danny using it on Wagner.

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 04:27:19 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.

He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.

Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 05:19:04 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.

He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.

Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.
No, he’s really not. And you have no evidence or stats that would suggest otherwise. The only league Yabu has played enough minutes in for us to judge him was in China. There is no reason to suggest that he would be able to lead a team to the National Championship or dominate in college.

And you’re just wrong about Wagner. Even if you don’t think he’ll end up being good, it’s ridiculous to say that his absolute best case scenario is a journeyman. When someone who is 6’11’’, plays solid defense, and his shooting and playmaking abilities hits their ceiling, they aren’t a journeyman type player. That just doesn’t make any sense.
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Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 05:36:53 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.

He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.

Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.
No, he’s really not. And you have no evidence or stats that would suggest otherwise. The only league Yabu has played enough minutes in for us to judge him was in China. There is no reason to suggest that he would be able to lead a team to the National Championship or dominate in college.

And you’re just wrong about Wagner. Even if you don’t think he’ll end up being good, it’s ridiculous to say that his absolute best case scenario is a journeyman. When someone who is 6’11’’, plays solid defense, and his shooting and playmaking abilities hits their ceiling, they aren’t a journeyman type player. That just doesn’t make any sense.

We might not be talking about the same player. Because the guy that I'm talking about is not a playmaker (averages 0.8 apg in 27.5 mpg) and is a bad defender. Is the guy you're referring going to be able to defend the PNR and switch onto smaller players, you know, things that are key in Stevens D?

In all seriousness, being a journeymen isn't a slight on the guy. It's tough to make it. College success means little in having success at the NBA level. Players more talent and with more greater collegiate accolades have failed. I just don't see any upside in the guy, so why waste a roster spot on a player who's not really going to help you much now or in the future?

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 06:26:42 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.

He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.

Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.
No, he’s really not. And you have no evidence or stats that would suggest otherwise. The only league Yabu has played enough minutes in for us to judge him was in China. There is no reason to suggest that he would be able to lead a team to the National Championship or dominate in college.

And you’re just wrong about Wagner. Even if you don’t think he’ll end up being good, it’s ridiculous to say that his absolute best case scenario is a journeyman. When someone who is 6’11’’, plays solid defense, and his shooting and playmaking abilities hits their ceiling, they aren’t a journeyman type player. That just doesn’t make any sense.

We might not be talking about the same player. Because the guy that I'm talking about is not a playmaker (averages 0.8 apg in 27.5 mpg) and is a bad defender. Is the guy you're referring going to be able to defend the PNR and switch onto smaller players, you know, things that are key in Stevens D?

In all seriousness, being a journeymen isn't a slight on the guy. It's tough to make it. College success means little in having success at the NBA level. Players more talent and with more greater collegiate accolades have failed. I just don't see any upside in the guy, so why waste a roster spot on a player who's not really going to help you much now or in the future?
That’s what I was saying. It’s good to see you admit you were talking about the wrong guy. It’s ok, just try to double check before you post next time.

Anyway, Moritz Wagner does have good playmaking skills. He handles the ball well for a big man, attack closeouts well, can post up, as well as pass out of double teams well. Not sure what that has to do with his assist numbers. And he’s a very solid defender. He doesn’t protect the rim, but he defends well in space for a guy his size. He’s also a good post defender and has good instincts, he averages a steal a game. Him playing the 5 in Michigan’s defense allows them to hedge pick and rolls hard, which is a big reason why they are 13th in defensive efficiency in the nation.

So I think he’s well worth a late 1st/early 2nd. And a journeyman is someone like Ersan Ilyasova or Trevor Booker. If you want to say that's his floor, I would be ok with that. But to say it's his ceiling just doesn't make sense, it's like you don't know what ceiling means. Maybe go do some research, and come back when you know a little more about him.
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Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2018, 07:06:54 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.

He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.

Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.
No, he’s really not. And you have no evidence or stats that would suggest otherwise. The only league Yabu has played enough minutes in for us to judge him was in China. There is no reason to suggest that he would be able to lead a team to the National Championship or dominate in college.

And you’re just wrong about Wagner. Even if you don’t think he’ll end up being good, it’s ridiculous to say that his absolute best case scenario is a journeyman. When someone who is 6’11’’, plays solid defense, and his shooting and playmaking abilities hits their ceiling, they aren’t a journeyman type player. That just doesn’t make any sense.

We might not be talking about the same player. Because the guy that I'm talking about is not a playmaker (averages 0.8 apg in 27.5 mpg) and is a bad defender. Is the guy you're referring going to be able to defend the PNR and switch onto smaller players, you know, things that are key in Stevens D?

In all seriousness, being a journeymen isn't a slight on the guy. It's tough to make it. College success means little in having success at the NBA level. Players more talent and with more greater collegiate accolades have failed. I just don't see any upside in the guy, so why waste a roster spot on a player who's not really going to help you much now or in the future?
That’s what I was saying. It’s good to see you admit you were talking about the wrong guy. It’s ok, just try to double check before you post next time.

Anyway, Moritz Wagner does have good playmaking skills. He handles the ball well for a big man, attack closeouts well, can post up, as well as pass out of double teams well. Not sure what that has to do with his assist numbers. And he’s a very solid defender. He doesn’t protect the rim, but he defends well in space for a guy his size. He’s also a good post defender and has good instincts, he averages a steal a game. Him playing the 5 in Michigan’s defense allows them to hedge pick and rolls hard, which is a big reason why they are 13th in defensive efficiency in the nation.

So I think he’s well worth a late 1st/early 2nd. And a journeyman is someone like Ersan Ilyasova or Trevor Booker. If you want to say that's his floor, I would be ok with that. But to say it's his ceiling just doesn't make sense, it's like you don't know what ceiling means. Maybe go do some research, and come back when you know a little more about him.

Wow! So basically someone like Illyasova is his floor? What's his ceiling then? Please keep educating me on this guy because clearly he's a lot better, and moves his feet faster, than where draft sites have him. That said, since you seem the be the go to guy for all things Wagner, why is it that he went back to school after the combine? Doesn't that seem odd? Can you name another example where a player went to the combine, went back to school due to some mysterious reason (lack of talent perhaps), and carved out a solid, non journeyman type career? Thanks.

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2018, 07:13:14 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.

TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.

There is no point

He wants to throw darts in the dark and take Diallo

Re: PF Moritz Wagner would be a nice 2018 draft pickup
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2018, 08:22:11 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Nice skill for a big man.  Highlight from last season.  But is skinny. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNkUo8g-EqY

Sweet 16 game highlight (last week). Has done a nice job filling out his body.   Yes overall there is some resemblance to KO game (for the good and the bad).  But is more co ordinated and more aggressive.   Kind of hoping he doesn't have a great game vs Villanova.  Otherwise could leapfrog into the early 20s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVWlGbYX62I
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 08:29:08 PM by triboy16f »