Author Topic: Olynyk 22/10/5  (Read 8082 times)

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Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2018, 08:04:46 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2018, 08:26:04 AM »

Offline ederson

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Don't blame the Messenger ... I am just quoting the oracle. KO is the fact same player he was in Boston

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2018, 10:24:29 AM »

Offline footey

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Zach Lowe said Heat much better when Kelly on the floor, and that he should be considered 3rd best 6th man in league after Lou Williams and Eric Gordon.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2018, 10:43:21 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Too soft

will always be.


Meh .

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2018, 12:22:53 PM »

Offline footey

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Too soft

will always be.


Meh .

Soft doesn’t beat Wiz in game 7.

Meh back.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2018, 04:58:30 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2018, 09:47:54 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time. 

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2018, 10:18:23 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time.

I guess the way I look at it is that the offense is on an arc improving throughout the season.

For example, if a season were 10 games, and they scored 95, 95, 97, 97, and 98 in pre-all-star games, their rating would be 96.4. If they continued that same trend offensively and scored 98, 98, 100, 100, and 102, their rating post-all star would be 99.6.

You could say, "There is not way they improved that much just because of the all-star break," but if they are improving their offense throughout the year, it's not so much the all-star break that make them improve, but the gradual growth throughout the year.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2018, 01:21:57 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2018, 01:33:37 PM »

Online trickybilly

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2018, 02:19:23 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 763
  • Tommy Points: 111
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and it makes sense that Hassan is the one to give.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 02:25:26 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2018, 02:26:42 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and Hassan makes sense.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.

Phoenix would be a good destination. They could use a good rim protector to improve their defense,

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2018, 02:52:27 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 763
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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and Hassan makes sense.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.

Phoenix would be a good destination. They could use a good rim protector to improve their defense,

Interesting. Maybe that would free Jared Dudley from NBA Purgatory.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2018, 03:01:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
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Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and it makes sense that Hassan is the one to give.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.
Why does it make sense that Whiteside is the one to give? He is the team's 3rd leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading shot blocker and best defensive player. He has the team's lowest defensive rating by far. Of the rotation players, he has the highest differential between Ortg and Drtg. He has by far the most WS/48 on the team. By far the best PER on the team. By far the highest Simple Rating on 82games.com.

Teams need defense and rebounding too. Miami needs what Whiteside provides.

The Heat are in a bad shape financially because of contracts like those given to Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Not sure any of those guys are worth over the MLE but they will be making close to $57 million between them next year. That's where things need to be addressed.

Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2018, 03:21:49 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.
So is that why he is 9th in minutes per game and rarely starts?

Point taken about the minutes, though in fact no one on the team plays a lot; and Kelly is averaging a career-high in minutes at 23.7 - that would be sixth man minutes on the Warriors or fourth on the Raptors.

“Rarely starts”? He has 22 so far this year, so I can’t agree with that claim.