Author Topic: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader  (Read 11180 times)

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Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2018, 09:29:09 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think your cynicism and attempt at a hot take falls flat. I think it would be a better hot take if you were talking about players that people care about. The controversial takes trying to discredit Marcus Smart, Kyrie Irving, and Al Horford have legs. I would think that most people would agree with you that these guys aren't in the Celtics long term plans. They'll be playing in Europe soon enough.

Either of them getting NBA minutes long term is a long shot. This should be obvious.

If only the bolded were true.

These are only a couple of the comments overrating both over the past year, but obviously there are plenty more. Let's call it the Gabe Pruitt effect, a vicious cycle where a young player becomes unwarrantedly overrated by the green masses.

Semi is not as talented (skill wise) than Tatum. But I wouldnt be shocked if he ends up becoming the better 2 way player. 

Impressive. Nader might turn out to be the IT of the 2016 draft. Imagine if Nader ends up being better than Brown..

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2018, 09:38:09 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2018, 07:01:35 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2018, 07:16:09 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2018, 07:22:25 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?

As usual, you're not listening.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2018, 07:23:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What I don't get is why quality players like Porzingas and West, who play tons of minutes versus NBA All-Star level talent, and can guard those players pretty well, suddenly is going to have trouble guarding a guy that is playing at a G League level for almost this entire season. Cuts, alley oops, coming off screens, whatever. Has Porzingas and West not seen much better players do these exact same things and played very good defense against these players? Why are they suddenly going to have so much trouble guarding Yabu without giving up baskets or committing fouls? I don't get it.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2018, 07:30:02 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?

As usual, you're not listening.

Honestly, it's hard to listen to tin foil logic, when you seem to suggest that Stevens and our entire coaching staff is somehow completely unaware of the talent Semi possesses offensively. Is there a hidden agenda by the staff to purposely put him in positions to fail, or is the staff just flat-out incompetent? Because you're indirectly suggesting one or the other if they are witnesses to his vast abilities in both games and practices, yet don't choose to "unleash" him on the rest of the NBA.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2018, 12:17:58 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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What I don't get is why quality players like Porzingas and West, who play tons of minutes versus NBA All-Star level talent, and can guard those players pretty well, suddenly is going to have trouble guarding a guy that is playing at a G League level for almost this entire season. Cuts, alley oops, coming off screens, whatever. Has Porzingas and West not seen much better players do these exact same things and played very good defense against these players? Why are they suddenly going to have so much trouble guarding Yabu without giving up baskets or committing fouls? I don't get it.

I was talking about Semi. Sorry about that.

Anyway, while West, and I'm not sure as to how well he actually defends anyone, anymore, and Porzingis have been able to guard All-Star level talents, most of those guys tend to be from their respective positions, so they're not used to dealing with someone with much better quickness, hence the mismatch in terms of the latter.

Additionally, due to their size, they'll have a much harder time in negotiating a pick/back screen, thereby yielding more separation. It's one of the classic problems with switching defenses - sure, you might be able to guard certain guys in what appears to be a complete mismatch in terms of size on the perimeter when they have the ball, but not without it, as it's simply an agility contest at that point. Here, look at the 0:10 mark of this video, below, wherein Markieff Morris, at 6'10" 245 lbs., winds up picking, well, up Wesley Iwundu, who comes in at 6'7" 195 lbs. Seeing the mismatch, the latter passes the ball to Biyombo on the left block and then cuts to the hoop, receives the return pass from Biyombo, and converts the layup in a classic give-and-go play. That's one variation of the idea that I mentioned, previously.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8P8_zO-3nc

Am I making any sense, here? Is that not just basic, fundamental, basketball?

Honestly, it's hard to listen to tin foil logic, when you seem to suggest that Stevens and our entire coaching staff is somehow completely unaware of the talent Semi possesses offensively. Is there a hidden agenda by the staff to purposely put him in positions to fail, or is the staff just flat-out incompetent? Because you're indirectly suggesting one or the other if they are witnesses to his vast abilities in both games and practices, yet don't choose to "unleash" him on the rest of the NBA.

::). Yeah, I'm not at all suggesting that they have held back from "unleashing him on the rest of the NBA", nor do I think that they've "purposely put him in positions to fail", although, and this should come as a surprise to no one who has watched Stevens and co. since he arrived, they have been completely averse to utilizing the post game of Brown, whose inside play his completely disappeared, this year, Tatum (why was he coming off of screens against McCollum last night when he's 4-5 inches taller than the latter and has the ability to exploit the mismatch inside?), and yes, even Semi, who, despite his perimeter touch in college was primarily a power player. I'm not saying that Ojeleye should be the focal point, offensively. All I'm saying is that, and as with any other player, if they get a dunk/layup/free throws at the outset, their jumper will start falling. Is that really such an outlandish statement to make?

Beyond that, my reply, above, illustrates my point concerning utilizing Semi's agility against much slower players such as West and Porzingis, for example.