Author Topic: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader  (Read 4096 times)

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Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2018, 04:18:23 PM »

Offline footey

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Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Who wants to be on record for advocating drafting Josh McRobwrts??

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2018, 04:44:18 PM »

Offline Granath

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I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team? I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.

That's part of it.  Brad has continuously hailed Semi's defensive talent, yet we've never seen him give us any of those game-changing moments that Smart will whip out of his back pocket several times a quarter.

The other part of why he's expected to produce, is because Brad is giving him all these minutes.

Kinda like how we expected RJ Hunter to start doing stuff towards the end.  Brad spent all that time playing him and giving him the experience, even over Rozier (hey, maybe Yabu will end up like Rozier).

At a certain point we expect Brad to either stop playing him, or for us to see something else out of him.

You're quite mistaken:

"all that time"

RJ Hunter played a total of 326 minutes in his 3 year NBA career, the vast majority of them the first two months of his NBA career (and he was a more polished prospect than Rozier) while Rozier was recovering from a knee injury sustained against Real Madrid.

Maybe I shouldn't be but I'm constantly surprised how unrealistic some people's expectations are around here. How many other players in the NBA produce game-changing defensive moments that Marcus Smart does? Almost none. Semi wasn't a defensive presence in college but he does have it the physical makeup to become one. And if Brad Stevens says that he's contributing, then who am I to argue? The only reason why Brad is giving him "all these minutes" is because this team is ravaged by injuries. No one could foresee having 5 of our 6 best players off the court at the same time (Hayward, Irving, Brown, Smart, Horford) never mind key reserves like Theis and Larkin. And when you ask a raw rookie to do a lot more than they're comfortable with, they're going to look bad. But they learn and grow - and this injury bug will ultimately help them down the road when those guys are called upon again.
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Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2018, 05:04:51 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Nader has bad footwork and technique on D, he bends at the waist instead of the knee.  This causes him to play off balance.   A good defender gets low with his knees like AB did.  This compounds his lack of desire to play D and foot speed.  I think he has to go, because he thinks he is way better than he is and takes shots he has not business to take.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2018, 06:36:25 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Some you probably can and some not, as I couldn’t find anything of mine from the 07 draft or before, so my hyping of Al Horford and Rondo is gone. Big Baby and McRoberts should be there, I was active here then and wanting those guys, we got 1 of 2 and Pruit. But I went public on FB for sure.

DeAndre was a top 5 high school player and physical specimen on the board at the end of the first, that wasn’t rocket science. I don’t think I was on record here for Bell, just with friends, I was too busy here trying to decide between Josh Jackson and Tatum, and I didn’t think we’d have a real shot at Bell. Didn’t know for sure a pick would be for sale, But tons of people looking at the 2nd here loved Bell. I wasn’t active here when Green was drafted I don’t think but I wanted him, had no clue he’d be this good obviously,  and when I saw Sully on the board, him too. But I would have been happy with Royce White, among plenty of other misses over the years that would’ve cost me my fictional GM job.

FWIW, I wasn’t pushing for Greek Freak :-) And feel free to search my history, I’d be interested in what you find.
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And lead us not into the lottery
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Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2018, 07:08:23 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Who wants to be on record for advocating drafting Josh McRobwrts??

Over Gabe Pruit, and for $500k a year? Anyone who knows anything about basketball?
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2018, 10:29:37 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2018, 11:20:17 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2018, 11:34:16 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Nader has bad footwork and technique on D, he bends at the waist instead of the knee.  This causes him to play off balance.   A good defender gets low with his knees like AB did.  This compounds his lack of desire to play D and foot speed.  I think he has to go, because he thinks he is way better than he is and takes shots he has not business to take.

Yep. At this point I feel like his only ‘nba skill’ is his drive and kick game. He’s actually got a pretty crafty first step (but by the time he approaches the rim it’s already all over) and has gone from total ballhog to knowing who the defensive rotation has left partially open. Unfortunately, that ‘skill’ just isn’t enough. And I thought he showed a lot of promise that first summer league. Deceptive, deceptive summer league.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2018, 11:13:00 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I don't believe Semi or Nader are trash or bums. They just aren't ready to step into the roles that we need them for right now.

Nader - Is a decent offensive player but will jack shots indiscriminately at the worst times. He has an aggressiveness that I wish Tatum had on offense.

Semi - Is frustrating to watch on offense at times. He will not use his strength or ball handling to create various shots. He just gets it and shoots it like he's Ray Allen...and he's not. He's a very good defender who will get better as time goes on. I see alot of TA in Semi and in 3 years we may be looking at a bonafide NBA defender with a growing reputation.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2018, 11:32:06 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I would call them "unfortunately the team has to play them more then they planned" brothers.

Few teams (if any) have the depth to have a bench deep enough to handle the injuries the Celtics currently have and not have players that are not ready for the amount of minutes needed. 

Knicks: Irving, Drummond, Marcus Morris, S. Muhammad, C. Lee, Sullinger, Hield, M. Chriss , V. Carter, T. Zeller, N. Cole, T. Prince, Livio Jean-Charles, Tyler Ulis, N. Collison

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2018, 02:45:03 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'

Well, obviously that's not been correct.   Given the absence of Hayward, Brown, Theis, Smart & Irving, those two guys DO belong in the rotation.   And that is why they are being used by Stevens.

That's why they are on an NBA roster.   To be used when the guys ahead of them are out.
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Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2018, 02:52:18 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

This thread + this comment makes me think that you're probably not a good guy. Good guys don't compare other humans to trash.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2018, 03:17:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Let's keep the comments on the subject and no more comments about the posters.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2018, 04:42:28 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

This thread + this comment makes me think that you're probably not a good guy. Good guys don't compare other humans to trash.

lol ok

I'm not talking about them as people, I'm describing their games. And yes, their games are garbage. A lot of sensitivity here.


But to avoid further confusion here you go...

gar·bage
a thing that is considered worthless or meaningless.

Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2018, 05:49:27 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 06:15:11 PM by green_bballers13 »