Author Topic: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?  (Read 1837 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« on: March 20, 2018, 02:40:53 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3719
  • Tommy Points: 304
At the 2011 draft the Spurs traded their then 24 year old backup PG fresh off of averaging 28mpg and nearly 12pts 2.5 ast and 2.5 rb to the pacers for the 15th pick Kawhi Leonard.

 The Cs currently have Rozier at 24 years old averaging 25mpg 11pts 2.7 ast and 4.5rb on a team where he may still be the 3rd PG if Smart is resigned. Now obviously a lot goes out the window if the plan isn't to retain Smart but I personally think he and the Cs come to contract terms.

So the question is how unlikely would it be for DA to pull off a draft day deal that ships Terry to a team that can use a starting PG for a rookie DA covets.

Teams in need of a PG and 1st rd picks higher then 20 (as of 3/20)

Suns  1,15,16
Magic  4
clippers 12,14
nuggets 13 (have gaurds but really lack a PG)
76ers 11,18 (god knows how they feel about Fultz long term)

Players I could see DA targeting in a trade ( most would not be available but want to point out players who could fit the current rosters need. I view the need being a young bigman to spell Al)

First group likely require too high of a trade up or an LAL miracle (range picks 1-10)
Ayton
Jackson Jr
Bamba
Carter

Second Group should range from (11-20)
Williams
M Robinson
J Porter

Obviously anyone in group one would be a huge acquisition and potential future allstar. The 2nd group has more questions but some real potential. Robinson is a high potential big with great measurable who is very raw but in theory could be as good as any player in this draft. Williams has Defensive player of the year type potential with his elite athletic ability. Porter is a bit of a sleeper who is more of a long term project who may be the most capable of mimicking Al's style of play. 

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2018, 02:45:18 PM »

Offline chilidawg

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Tommy Points: 261
Odds of a 15th pick being as good as Rozier aren't that good.  Odds of the 15th pick being as good as Leonard are exceptionally slim.  And you're not getting a top 5 lottery pick for Rozier. 

I really don't get what you're thinking here.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2018, 02:51:39 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9279
  • Tommy Points: 590
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
Keep Rozier, re-sign Monroe and Baynes, pay the lux tax.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2018, 03:09:18 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8206
  • Tommy Points: 813
I don't think you are getting much for a year of Terry Rozier.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2018, 03:31:04 PM »

Offline coffee425

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 954
  • Tommy Points: 122
Odds of a 15th pick being as good as Rozier aren't that good.  Odds of the 15th pick being as good as Leonard are exceptionally slim.  And you're not getting a top 5 lottery pick for Rozier. 

I really don't get what you're thinking here.

Odds that he's the 8th man on a good, not great team? I think that's the expectation for a 15th pick.
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2018, 03:31:10 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2420
  • Tommy Points: 439
The problem in this scenario is that no one thought Leonard would be as good as he has become. So any players who are considered to be high upside players today can't be considered for this exercise.

Leonard's comp was Mbouh a Moute or Gerald Wallace on nbadraft.net (not a great site, but we'll go with this for now). His strengths were evident, but his weaknesses were that he didn't have a move with which to score consistently, he didn't have a consistent jumpshot, and he gambled on defense.

For this exercise, the guys I have an eye on are Troy Brown, Bonga, or  Baites-Diop. For a different position, Porter or Wiley might be guys to consider.

Fun exercise. Good thoughts. It'd be sweet to get a big to complete the young core.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2018, 03:51:47 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tommy Points: 626
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
The problem in this scenario is that no one thought Leonard would be as good as he has become. So any players who are considered to be high upside players today can't be considered for this exercise.

Leonard's comp was Mbouh a Moute or Gerald Wallace on nbadraft.net (not a great site, but we'll go with this for now). His strengths were evident, but his weaknesses were that he didn't have a move with which to score consistently, he didn't have a consistent jumpshot, and he gambled on defense.

For this exercise, the guys I have an eye on are Troy Brown, Bonga, or  Baites-Diop. For a different position, Porter or Wiley might be guys to consider.

Fun exercise. Good thoughts. It'd be sweet to get a big to complete the young core.

That is true. Coming out of college, there were criticisms that Leonard couldn't shoot, couldn't pass, and couldn't seem to be effective enough offensively to carry the offensive load, or even to be as good as he is today. Perhaps, some of that should be attributed to the tutelage of Parker, Duncan, and Ginobli along with Pop as the HC of course. But generally at the time, George Hill was Pop's favorite point guard, and he had to ultimately decide between Parker or Hill.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 03:55:47 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8230
  • Tommy Points: 903
I like the idea, but don't think we should necessarily be concentrating on bigs. In fact, I think Mikal Bridges would be the perfect Stevens' system player. 6'7" 3 and D player, who's extremely athletic, and has a huge 7 foot wingspan. Tatum is going to be playing a lot of 4 next season, probably starting, and adding another versatile wing would be unreal.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 04:04:35 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tommy Points: 626
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
I like the idea, but don't think we should necessarily be concentrating on bigs. In fact, I think Mikal Bridges would be the perfect Stevens' system player. 6'7" 3 and D player, who's extremely athletic, and has a huge 7 foot wingspan. Tatum is going to be playing a lot of 4 next season, probably starting, and adding another versatile wing would be unreal.

TP to you Eddie. Mikal Bridges is actually one of my binkie's, and I think he's gonna be really vital to today's modern NBA. His wingspan, and his defensive IQ is really what led Villanova to doing so well to the tune of 32-4 W/L.

While his offensive upside isn't anything spectacular, I would love to combine picks to try to get a chance to draft him. He is the perfect role player to put in Steven's system.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 04:07:22 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7893
  • Tommy Points: 951
Odds of a 15th pick being as good as Rozier aren't that good.  Odds of the 15th pick being as good as Leonard are exceptionally slim.  And you're not getting a top 5 lottery pick for Rozier. 

I really don't get what you're thinking here.

But the odds that the #15 pick will be paid considerably less than Rozier over the next 4 years are extremely high. If the plan is to re-sign Smart (and it hopefully is), then Rozier will lose a number of his minutes to Hayward anyway.

I am totally a Rozier fan and if he wanted to stick it out with the Cs for a bargain deal, then I am all for it. But, I just don't see how the salary is going to work by paying Smart and Rozier along with max contracts for just about everybody else. It's frightening to think about.

And even if Smart signs somewhere else, it still might be a good idea to trade Rozier if it looks like he is going to get PAID. I don't think anybody would be all that psyched by continuing to lose all of our productive 1st round picks (yes, Sully and KO were productive here) year after year for nothing.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 04:22:39 PM »

Offline chilidawg

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Tommy Points: 261
Odds of a 15th pick being as good as Rozier aren't that good.  Odds of the 15th pick being as good as Leonard are exceptionally slim.  And you're not getting a top 5 lottery pick for Rozier. 

I really don't get what you're thinking here.

Odds that he's the 8th man on a good, not great team? I think that's the expectation for a 15th pick.

Justin Jackson, Juan Hernangomez, Kelly Oubre, Adrien Payne, and Giannis were the last 5 15th picks.  You've got 3 guys that probably won't amount to much, Oubre who seems like he might have similar value to Rozier, and a huge outlier in Giannis.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 04:24:48 PM »

Offline chilidawg

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Tommy Points: 261
Odds of a 15th pick being as good as Rozier aren't that good.  Odds of the 15th pick being as good as Leonard are exceptionally slim.  And you're not getting a top 5 lottery pick for Rozier. 

I really don't get what you're thinking here.

But the odds that the #15 pick will be paid considerably less than Rozier over the next 4 years are extremely high. If the plan is to re-sign Smart (and it hopefully is), then Rozier will lose a number of his minutes to Hayward anyway.

I am totally a Rozier fan and if he wanted to stick it out with the Cs for a bargain deal, then I am all for it. But, I just don't see how the salary is going to work by paying Smart and Rozier along with max contracts for just about everybody else. It's frightening to think about.

And even if Smart signs somewhere else, it still might be a good idea to trade Rozier if it looks like he is going to get PAID. I don't think anybody would be all that psyched by continuing to lose all of our productive 1st round picks (yes, Sully and KO were productive here) year after year for nothing.

You're right that a draft pick would cost less, but they also are not likely to produce much for a few years.  Rozier is a great example of this.  He was cheap but useless for a couple years, was probably worth his salary last year, and is out performing it this year.  Not an unusual pattern for a draft pick.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 04:25:45 PM »

Offline footey

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7895
  • Tommy Points: 1016
Hang onto Rozier in case Irving knee deteriorates. May be our future starting PG.

Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 04:48:16 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3719
  • Tommy Points: 304
to answer many of the responses I agree it isn't very likely that Rozier is moved especially for a rookie.

However I can see a situation where it could happen.

Lets say DA gets a workout with M Robinson and is impressed. Mind you he is super athletic 7'1 with a 7'4 wing span and was the ranked as the #9 player in his draft class.

Now the Suns are currently projected to be drafting 1, 15 and 16 in the 1st round.

Lets say they draft Ayton #1 then at 15 Young, Sexton and SGA are all off the board. They can either try trading up those two picks to make sure they draft their PG or maybe DA offers Rozier and #27 for #15. That would allow the Suns to get Rozier and draft players at 16 and 27.

Not likely but plausible


Re: Could DA emulate the Spurs with a Rozier deal?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 04:53:07 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tommy Points: 626
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
to answer many of the responses I agree it isn't very likely that Rozier is moved especially for a rookie.

However I can see a situation where it could happen.

Lets say DA gets a workout with M Robinson and is impressed. Mind you he is super athletic 7'1 with a 7'4 wing span and was the ranked as the #9 player in his draft class.

Now the Suns are currently projected to be drafting 1, 15 and 16 in the 1st round.

Lets say they draft Ayton #1 then at 15 Young, Sexton and SGA are all off the board. They can either try trading up those two picks to make sure they draft their PG or maybe DA offers Rozier and #27 for #15. That would allow the Suns to get Rozier and draft players at 16 and 27.

Not likely but plausible

I am going to come out and tell you straight up that I think Mitchell Robinson is gonna be one of the biggest disappointments of this draft.

Awkward frame with high hips, and just lacks overall fundamentals that most big men his age should at least know how to use. He also gets WAY too lost defensively, not to mention he seems to be unable to box out too well for a man of his size. His motor and his hustle just have nothing but question marks.

But hey, this entire thread is all hypothetically plausible, so who knows what might happen. I don't see Ainge doing that though. I can see Ainge being in love with Rozier too much, and unless he gets a firm confirmation that he won't re-sign, I can see Rozay staying with us for a while.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different