Author Topic: UPDATE: Smart undergoes surgery, out indefinitely  (Read 23688 times)

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Re: UPDATE: Smart undergoes surgery, out indefinitely
« Reply #210 on: March 19, 2018, 09:04:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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"Defensive oriented guard" and "perennial DPOY candidate" are two sides of a coin.  Each a similar stretch from reality in either direction.
If Smart were "defensive-oriented", he'd be a much better player. The problem is he isn't, and that's killing our team sometimes.
Koz, you are overthinking this.
Smart is a defensive-minded player. His decisionmaking is better at that end and his positive impact is felt more at that end.

Perennial DPOY he is not - you need to be durable for that and he hasn't shown that in 4 years.
Depends on how you define "defensive-minded" (I was being a bit facetious in the definition, obviously). There's no doubt that he's a better defensive than offensive player, but he doesn't know how to play within himself on offense. If he learned how to pull some punches, the team would be better for it.
The big problem I've always had with Smart is shoots the ball way too much.  If he just cut back his shooting, he would be a much better overall player.  But 4 years in, he still shoots like he is Steph Curry, and that is a huge problem. 

Also, I think we overrate his defense on here a lot.  He is a good defensive player, no question, but he is no where near a DPOY candidate, if a Celtic were to win that award, that Celtic would be Al Horford (not that I think he will win it, just that he would be most likely).
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Re: UPDATE: Smart undergoes surgery, out indefinitely
« Reply #211 on: March 19, 2018, 09:40:57 AM »

Offline mef730

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Wonder if Smart played his last game in a Celtics uniform last Sunday.

Gonna miss his hustles regardless, but his shooting won't be missed.

He is a goner unfortunately

Reading Pacers will go hard after Randle or Gordon and Smart in the offseason

I think Danny offered Smart in the neighborhood of 8-10 million per season and Smart and his agent balked

Pacers can doll out 15 million a season to smart.  If I'm Smart I'm leaving

I don't think any team is going to be foolish enough to offer Smart $15m per. That's a huge overpay.

But if someone does, then yes, Smart will not be back with the Celtics. Ainge will never pay a defensive role player that kind of money.

Kelly Olynyk makes 15M per and Smart is a far better player.

Smart is clearly better on defense, but Olynyk is clearly better on offense.

Teams generally value offense more than defense, and big men are always paid more than guards, especially when that big man can shoot the three ball at a good rate.

The Celtics value players who make their team better. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/lineups/

He is on most of the highest-rated lineups on the team.  They are not going to let him walk away if the price on him is $12-15M.


Of course the team values players that make them better.  But I seriously doubt anyone values Smart as a $15m per year player, including Ainge.

I guess we'll see who is right and who is wrong in about 4-5 months.
I agree. Smart does not have a value of $12-15 million a year. But in the off chance some idiot of a GM decides to offer Smart 4 years at $50-60 million, there is no way Ainge matches it. He has too many people to pay in the next few years to take a big jump into the luxury tax on overpaying for Smart.

They raised ticket prices 40% over the past 2 seasons.  If they let him walk over a difference in salary of a couple million it is going to look real bad.

Again, if Ainge thinks he is worth $5M per and he gets $12M from somewhere else, that is one thing.  And that might be true because if I remember correctly they were not really close to getting anything done early this season.

I don't think it's about the absolute salary (at least it isn't for me, and I'm a STM whose tickets went up 15% this year; see thread: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95407.0). It's more about the cap and the luxury tax.

Having said that, I don't think he's going to be walking. He may actually be worth $12-15m, but there are few teams with salary cap space this off-season and enough players to go around that he's not going to have a heck of a lot of leverage. Timing and cap space are going to work in our favor this year.

Mike

Re: UPDATE: Smart undergoes surgery, out indefinitely
« Reply #212 on: March 19, 2018, 10:08:17 AM »

Offline Moranis

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His last game as a Celtic has been played, sucks to see him go out like that.
I think it's entirely possible he is back either in the playoffs or next year.

Me too.

Which team is going to give Smart $9 million plus. The guy is worth bringing back at that amount.
Ultimately, I think Smart gets more than that in the open market.  It's going to be a tough decision if he gets to unrestricted free agency.
I find it hard to see Smart getting more than the $8+ million a year that an MLE player gets. Roberson got $10 million a year in a better market. Lou Williams got only $8 million a year in this market. Smart shot like crap this year. Was out 11 games because of a maturity issue when he punched a picture. Now he's out for weeks with another injury.

Smart might need to take the qualifying offer and attempt to significantly improve his shot while establishing value greater than the MLE to get a big payday.
Lou Williams wasn't in the market
Splitting hairs here Moranis. Maybe more accurate to say Lou Williams only got $8 million a year just a couple of months ago with a contract extension, but I think the vast majority of people, like everyone but you, know what I meant by saying what I did.
extensions though are limited in what they can be.  He just wanted stability, but he wasn't in the market so you can't really use him as an example of the market.

I think there is a chance Phoenix offers Smart 10+ million a year.  He would be a very nice fit with Booker and they have a real need at that position (Payton trade not with standing) and the cap space to do it.  I don't think Phoenix is the only team with cap space that will look at Smart either.  This won't be a crazy market like a couple of seasons ago, but there will be teams with room that will look very hard at signing Smart at a fairly reasonable price (like 10-11 million a year).
If I were the Phoenix owner and the GM suggested signing Smart, I'd fire him on the spot.  The Suns are a lousy team.  If they sign Smart, they'd still be a lousy team but have 10-11M less cap space per your suggestion.   Assuming they can't sign a star caliber player, they need to use their cap space for taking on salary dumps.
they don't need more young guys or later 1st round picks.  They have plenty of young players.  What they need is someone like Smart that hustled, defends, does the dirty work, etc.  He is worth a lot more to a team like Phoenix then he would be worth to a contender.
Completely disagree.  Smart makes a lot more sense for a contender with good offense players that needs to shore up its defense.  Smart wouldn't make the Suns significantly better.  Most of their young players aren't even mediocre.
the Suns have a lot of offense in Booker and Warren on the wing. Smart is the perfect compliment to them.
The Suns offensive rating is at the bottom of the league.  They're only scoring 104.3 ppg even though they are 2nd in pace.  They're defense is at the bottom of the league too but adding Smart isn't going to do much to improve that.
a large part of that is they have pretty poor offensive players at the 1, 4, and 5 spots on the floor.  I realize Smart is also a poor offensive player, but he is a much better fit next to Warren and Booker (who are both excellent offensive players) than Payton and everyone else on the Suns.  They may just decide to re-up Payton and not risk Boston matching, but Phoenix makes a heck of a lot of sense as a destination for Smart, and if they let Payton walk, they will have 10 million+ to offer Smart.
A team as bad as the Suns doesn't and shouldn't focus on defensive fit.  Let's say he's a great fit for the Suns which I don't particularly agree with.  What does that make them 5th or 6th worse team rather than the 1st or 2nd worst team?  The Suns need to focus on talent not fit.
Sure, but who would you rather pay Payton or Smart?  And if you don't pay one of them, what are you left with, Tyler Ullis and Brandon Knight (who may never be the same)?  They obviously could end up with Doncic or Sexton, or some other high level rookie, but drafting one of those guys wouldn't stop them at all from signing Smart or Payton, who they frankly need as at worst a 6th man type.  And it isn't like the Suns have mass of cap room, they don't, and as their younger guys start coming due, they won't have the cap room going forward.  Phoenix is basically done acquiring high level picks.  They have Booker.  They have Jackson, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Len, and the rookie this year. 
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Re: UPDATE: Smart undergoes surgery, out indefinitely
« Reply #213 on: March 19, 2018, 10:16:29 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Also, I think we overrate his defense on here a lot.  He is a good defensive player, no question, but he is no where near a DPOY candidate, if a Celtic were to win that award, that Celtic would be Al Horford (not that I think he will win it, just that he would be most likely).
To put things in perspective, Tony Allen finished in the 4-6 range in the DPOY voting for three consecutive years, and that was all the serious DPOY consideration he's gotten over the course of his career. TA is probably the better defensive player than Smart, too.
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