Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread

[celts10]

Sometimes I wonder if a Paul trade would have lured David West into signing here as well, although I think he wanted a starting spot and KG was still playing the forward position at that point. It was during the midpoint of the season when Jermaine O'Neal got hurt did Doc move KG over to the center spot. West sure would have been a nice upgrade over Bass.

Didn't Paul claim that he didn't want to resign in Boston had we traded for him?

[vjcsmoke]

If Doc got in the way of the Chris Paul trade, then he's an idiot.  Chris Paul was a WAY better player than Rondo.  If we had reloaded with a team centered around Chris Paul, maybe we win 1 more championship ring.

article:
https://nesn.com/2018/03/this-reason-why-chris-paul-to-celtics-trade-fell-through-in-2011-is-amazing/

[vjcsmoke]

You are in the minority.  Rondo made flashier defensive plays but that's because he gambled more.  I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo any day.

Defense aside, when you factor in the overall package, Chris Paul would have been a MUCH better player for the Celtics than Rondo if the trade happened.  Even if CP doesn't promise to sign an extension I'd do the deal, because if he wins a ring with Boston, he likely extends for another 3 seasons, that would have kept the window open for the Big 3. 

It's all hindsight, but this trade not happening, if Doc factored into it, I'd wish his house to be egged everyday of the week because that's just dumb to pass on CP3 in favor of keeping Rondo.

Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/

Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul

Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.

Interesting. I've always seen Rondo as a guy with an extra defensive gear that Paul couldn't match even if he tried. My eyeballs have never told me that Paul is first-team all-defense good -- and certainly not better than an engaged Rondo. I guess I'm in the minority.

[celticsclay]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/ray-allen-addresses-roots-of-problems-with-kevin-garnett-rajon-rondo-celtics-in-new-book/ar-BBK8sxX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Ray Allen really isn't a likeable guy at this point. I am sure playing years together all over the country and world there were times that every single player was a jerk for some reason or another. Him putting these negative experiences in a book and attacking his old teammates isn't going to do any good and just makes them all look worse. Sigh...

Was this merged like this on purpose? I get they are both from Allen's book but Allen sharing his stories of KG telling him not to dribble by his locker, telling him he didn't tip well etc are pretty different from the Chris paul trade debate and it kind of got buried with how this was done. Maybe we could at least make clear with the thread title?

[kozlodoev]

Defense aside, when you factor in the overall package, Chris Paul would have been a MUCH better player for the Celtics than Rondo if the trade happened.

Sure. But the article made an explicit reference about Paul being potentially more disruptive to ballhandlers on the perimeter which made me LOL.

[ozgod]

Bit of dirty laundry coming out here   

[TheLegendaryClub]

Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

[celticsclay]

Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

This is how i feel

[timpiker]

All the more reason to not like Traitor Ray.  Don't forget he was catfished while cheating on his wife.  He's either a liar or gullible or both. 

[celticsclay]

Is that in the book?!

[SparzWizard]

Sometimes I wonder if a Paul trade would have lured David West into signing here as well, although I think he wanted a starting spot and KG was still playing the forward position at that point. It was during the midpoint of the season when Jermaine O'Neal got hurt did Doc move KG over to the center spot. West sure would have been a nice upgrade over Bass.

Didn't Paul claim that he didn't want to resign in Boston had we traded for him?

CP3 and David West in the Celtics in 2011-2012 season? That would've been a championship year. The Heat would've lost Game 1 or 2 handily, and get beat in five games. OKC was still young in their Durant/Westbrook/Harden trio they would've also lost the Finals.

[TA9]

I kind of hope that Rondo comes out and address the situation now that Ray has decided to publicly share their bad relationship with everyone in a book (not that we didn't know anyway). 

[Roy H.]

Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

I agree. I still appreciate Ray, but dang, let it go.  And take a joke; KG paid for you’re dinner and you’re hung up on the dude making a joke at your expense?

[aefgogreen]

I've spent a significant amount of time on this board defending Allen going to Miami, but I agree moves like this are pretty classless.  I also can't believe we would have had the opportunity to trade Rondo for CP3 and and chose to pass it up.

[Celtics4ever]

Ray was always a class act before coming here, but something changed in him.   I am thankful for the help he provided as being a core member of the 2008 team.   But he needs to shut the heck up!