Which 6 Guards Make Your All NBA Teams?

[Phantom255x]

1st - Harden & Curry

2nd - Westbrook & DeRozan

3rd - Irving & Lilliard

Or you could make the case CP3 makes it over Lilliard?

[jpotter33]

Just don't see the Russ argument over Kyrie, or even Lillard. Both are on better teams, and Kyrie is significantly more efficient than Russ.

1st: Harden and Curry

2nd: Irving and Derozan

3rd: Lillard and Paul/Westbrook (I'm fine with either of those two here.)

[Sophomore]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

Kyrie shoots a higher EFG on a higher usage rate than Paul, with every team keying their defense on him. Wonder what he’d do playing with Harden and the rest of the Rockets. I’d be stunned if his efficiency didn’t improve. On defense you have a point.

40-7...That's pretty darn spectacular and hard to believe Kyrie could improve on that.

Ok. Run it the other way then. Do you think he Cs would be better with Paul? I sure don’t. KI at this stage is a better manufacturer of baskets when the offense breaks down, while also shooting better without the ball in his hands.

Also, CP3 is playing with the runaway league MVP. Kyrie is playing on a team where the next best scoring option is Jaylen Brown - a talented but still pretty raw young player who might be, what, top 75 in the league?

[nickagneta]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

Kyrie shoots a higher EFG on a higher usage rate than Paul, with every team keying their defense on him. Wonder what he’d do playing with Harden and the rest of the Rockets. I’d be stunned if his efficiency didn’t improve. On defense you have a point.

40-7...That's pretty darn spectacular and hard to believe Kyrie could improve on that.

Ok. Run it the other way then. Do you think he Cs would be better with Paul? I sure don’t. KI at this stage is a better manufacturer of baskets when the offense breaks down, while also shooting better without the ball in his hands.

Also, CP3 is playing with the runaway league MVP. Kyrie is playing on a team where the next best scoring option is Jaylen Brown - a talented but still pretty raw young player who might be, what, top 75 in the league?

Yeah, I think the Celtics could be better with Paul. He's a much better defender, like its not even close, he's a much better passer and playmaker, he's just as good a shooter and overall a better player. Its not like Paul doesn't know how to be a number one option. So if Paul was healthy all year, yeah.

But, I would rather have a 25 year old Kyrie right now rather than a 32 year old CP3.

Here's their player comparison for this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Chris+Paul&player_id1_select=Chris+Paul&y1=2018&player_id1=paulch01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id2_select=Kyrie+Irving&y2=2018&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

[johnnygreen]

Why are some people dismissing Chris Paul based on the amount of games he has missed, yet have no issue putting Curry on the first team? Curry has only played 3 more games to date and may end up missing more games than Paul before the season ends.

As for Westbrook, OKC added two other stars to their team and it took time for the team to come together. This definitely hurt them in the beginning of the season, and they have been better since then. Plus, Westbrook is 0.4 rebounds per game from averaging another triple double for the second straight season.

First team: Westbrook and Harden
Second team: Irving and DeRozan
Third team: Lillard and Curry

[Sophomore]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

Kyrie shoots a higher EFG on a higher usage rate than Paul, with every team keying their defense on him. Wonder what he’d do playing with Harden and the rest of the Rockets. I’d be stunned if his efficiency didn’t improve. On defense you have a point.

40-7...That's pretty darn spectacular and hard to believe Kyrie could improve on that.

Ok. Run it the other way then. Do you think he Cs would be better with Paul? I sure don’t. KI at this stage is a better manufacturer of baskets when the offense breaks down, while also shooting better without the ball in his hands.

Also, CP3 is playing with the runaway league MVP. Kyrie is playing on a team where the next best scoring option is Jaylen Brown - a talented but still pretty raw young player who might be, what, top 75 in the league?

Yeah, I think the Celtics could be better with Paul. He's a much better defender, like its not even close, he's a much better passer and playmaker, he's just as good a shooter and overall a better player. Its not like Paul doesn't know how to be a number one option. So if Paul was healthy all year, yeah.

But, I would rather have a 25 year old Kyrie right now rather than a 32 year old CP3.

Here's their player comparison for this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Chris+Paul&player_id1_select=Chris+Paul&y1=2018&player_id1=paulch01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id2_select=Kyrie+Irving&y2=2018&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

CP3 may not have forgotten how to be a number 1, but as you get older your mind starts writing checks your body can’t cash. The numbers in your comparison tell me KI is a more efficient player despite a higher usage rate and the lack of a top-flight teammate to draw away the opponent’s defense. Houston is essentially tied for 1st in the league on offense; Paul is part of that but it’s mostly because he’s surrounded by more talent.

The defense I can’t comment on because I haven’t seen enough of Paul’s games and defensive metrics aren’t very good. There you might have a point and maybe that’s enough of a difference to tip the balance. But on offense we’d suffer.

[Bucketgetter]

1st team - Harden and Curry
2nd team - Lillard and Derozan
3rd team - Kyrie and Westbrook

That's what I would have if the season ended today. I think people are sleeping on Lillard though. He should be 2nd team at least, and if Curry misses a couple more games and the Blazers stay red hot, I think he could pass him.

Yeah, it hurts to say, and don't anyone ever let indeedproceed find out about this, but Lillard has been better than Kyrie this season.

Based on what? Kyrie has been significantly more efficient than Lillard in pretty much every measure outside of free throws, and pretty much every other statistical difference disappears or favors Kyrie (except assists) when the minute difference is accounted for (per 36). Plus, Kyrie is on the better team, so I don’t see any justification for this argument.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi

Kyrie is slightly more efficient, but overall Lillard has played more, and all of his points, assists, and rebounds per game are higher than Kyrie. When you're that good, it matters when you play more. The Blazers get 4 more minutes than we do from Kyrie every night. Lillard also has .8 more win shares, and more defensive win shares.

So you are telling me that Lillard is better than Curry? Coz you know, win shares...

First off, this thread isn't about who is better. It is about who has had the better season. And I don't know if you disregarded my initial post on purpose, but I talked about Lillard potentially being 1st team if he keeps his play up and Curry continues to miss games. Go back and read it please before you respond.

[nickagneta]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

Kyrie shoots a higher EFG on a higher usage rate than Paul, with every team keying their defense on him. Wonder what he’d do playing with Harden and the rest of the Rockets. I’d be stunned if his efficiency didn’t improve. On defense you have a point.

40-7...That's pretty darn spectacular and hard to believe Kyrie could improve on that.

Ok. Run it the other way then. Do you think he Cs would be better with Paul? I sure don’t. KI at this stage is a better manufacturer of baskets when the offense breaks down, while also shooting better without the ball in his hands.

Also, CP3 is playing with the runaway league MVP. Kyrie is playing on a team where the next best scoring option is Jaylen Brown - a talented but still pretty raw young player who might be, what, top 75 in the league?

Yeah, I think the Celtics could be better with Paul. He's a much better defender, like its not even close, he's a much better passer and playmaker, he's just as good a shooter and overall a better player. Its not like Paul doesn't know how to be a number one option. So if Paul was healthy all year, yeah.

But, I would rather have a 25 year old Kyrie right now rather than a 32 year old CP3.

Here's their player comparison for this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Chris+Paul&player_id1_select=Chris+Paul&y1=2018&player_id1=paulch01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id2_select=Kyrie+Irving&y2=2018&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

CP3 may not have forgotten how to be a number 1, but as you get older your mind starts writing checks your body can’t cash. The numbers in your comparison tell me KI is a more efficient player despite a higher usage rate and the lack of a top-flight teammate to draw away the opponent’s defense. The defense I can’t comment on because I haven’t seen enough of Paul’s games and defensive metrics aren’t very good. There you might have a point and maybe that’s enough of a difference to tip the balance. But on offense we’d suffer.

Paul and Kyrie have almost identical TS%s. Not sure where you are getting that KI is so much more efficient than Paul.

Listen, I love Kyrie, but Paul is just a better all around player.

[Bucketgetter]

Just don't see the Russ argument over Kyrie, or even Lillard. Both are on better teams, and Kyrie is significantly more efficient than Russ.

1st: Harden and Curry

2nd: Irving and Derozan

3rd: Lillard and Paul/Westbrook (I'm fine with either of those two here.)

Wow, you really think both OKC and Portland better than us? And you said it like it's a fact and there's no debate. That doesn't help your Kyrie argument either.

[jpotter33]

Just don't see the Russ argument over Kyrie, or even Lillard. Both are on better teams, and Kyrie is significantly more efficient than Russ.

1st: Harden and Curry

2nd: Irving and Derozan

3rd: Lillard and Paul/Westbrook (I'm fine with either of those two here.)

Wow, you really think both OKC and Portland better than us? And you said it like it's a fact and there's no debate. That doesn't help your Kyrie argument either.

No, you're misinterpreting my post. I'm saying both Kyrie and Lillard are on better teams than Russ lol

I think Boston is clearly the better team, and at this point Portland has a good argument that they're better than OKC, too.

[Monkhouse]

OKC has been underwhelming to say the least... I know Roberson is a special defender, and can make or break teams on the defensive end, but... Is his absence, the main reason why they are just terrible?

Pelicans have now passed them, and the Jazz just went 18-2 the last 20 games... And their still out of the playoff race..

[mctyson]

3 All NBA Teams, each one with 2 guard spots.

Harden ad Curry should be locks for the first team, I'd say (unless Curry misses a bunch of time at the end of the season and he gets dinged for it). After that there are 4 spots for Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard, Russell Westbrook, Victor Oladipo, Demar Derozan, Chris Paul, and Kyle Lowry,

Tight race and that's without giving John Wall, Klay Thompson, CJ Mccollum, or Kemba Walker any consideration.

Oladipo has to make it.

[mctyson]

1st - Curry, Harden

2nd - Lillard, Irving

3rd - Oladipo, Derozan


Reject empty Westbrook calories.

Chris Paul has only played 47 games, so doesn't qualify for me.

You nailed it.

[mctyson]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

The Rox are that record because of Harden.  They were a great team last year without Paul, and would be this year without him too.

No way he makes All NBA.

[Sophomore]

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

The Rox are that record because of Harden.  They were a great team last year without Paul, and would be this year without him too.

No way he makes All NBA.

Just don’t see CP3 being at the very top anymore. The stats favor Kyrie, even though he’s the Cs’ only real threat to create his own shot and defenses are keying on him. If you traded Paul and KI at the start of this year, I think the Rockets improve and the Cs are a little worse.

The Rockets are 40-7 in games Paul plays. He scores 19 a game with 2 more rebs per game than Kyrie and 3 more assists per game than Kyrie while playing All-Defense team, quality defense.

Pretty hard for me to believe Kyrie would make the Rox any better than that. If Paul hadn't missed so many games, I don't think there is any question he is a top 4 guard in the league this year.

Kyrie shoots a higher EFG on a higher usage rate than Paul, with every team keying their defense on him. Wonder what he’d do playing with Harden and the rest of the Rockets. I’d be stunned if his efficiency didn’t improve. On defense you have a point.

40-7...That's pretty darn spectacular and hard to believe Kyrie could improve on that.

Ok. Run it the other way then. Do you think he Cs would be better with Paul? I sure don’t. KI at this stage is a better manufacturer of baskets when the offense breaks down, while also shooting better without the ball in his hands.

Also, CP3 is playing with the runaway league MVP. Kyrie is playing on a team where the next best scoring option is Jaylen Brown - a talented but still pretty raw young player who might be, what, top 75 in the league?

Yeah, I think the Celtics could be better with Paul. He's a much better defender, like its not even close, he's a much better passer and playmaker, he's just as good a shooter and overall a better player. Its not like Paul doesn't know how to be a number one option. So if Paul was healthy all year, yeah.

But, I would rather have a 25 year old Kyrie right now rather than a 32 year old CP3.

Here's their player comparison for this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Chris+Paul&player_id1_select=Chris+Paul&y1=2018&player_id1=paulch01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id2_select=Kyrie+Irving&y2=2018&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

CP3 may not have forgotten how to be a number 1, but as you get older your mind starts writing checks your body can’t cash. The numbers in your comparison tell me KI is a more efficient player despite a higher usage rate and the lack of a top-flight teammate to draw away the opponent’s defense. The defense I can’t comment on because I haven’t seen enough of Paul’s games and defensive metrics aren’t very good. There you might have a point and maybe that’s enough of a difference to tip the balance. But on offense we’d suffer.

Paul and Kyrie have almost identical TS%s. Not sure where you are getting that KI is so much more efficient than Paul.

Listen, I love Kyrie, but Paul is just a better all around player.

Did not say he was “much” more efficient. Said he was more efficient, which he is. To me, it’s imprrssive that he’s doing that when defenses can load up to stop him. Do you seriously think he would not do better playing next to Harden? Or that CP3 would be doing as well with the Celtics to pass to instead of the Rockets? That is the delta I’m adding to the stats. Maybe you think it doesn’t matter. Fair enough, but as I recall, everybody here thought IT would do a lot better playing with another scorer; it’s a pretty commonly held view.

Put it this way. People like the set where Marcus takes point and KI plays off ball. Do you think KI would get better shots if it was Harden running that play instead of Marcus?