ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)

[Moranis]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players. 

[Donoghus]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

They might not be able to handle it but they'd almost certainly be forced into it playing on a lotto team as opposed their current situation. 

Maybe they'd grow more into it faster play for a crap team.  Maybe not.

[Moranis]

Jokic is ranked too high based on this year's performance.  Given too much credit for prior year.

Jokic is scoring more, rebounding more, assisting more, and shooting better from 3 and the line this year as opposed to last year. 

The only player in the league averaging at least 17 points, 10 rebounds, and 6 assists is Jokic.

[green_bballers13]

I see nothing wrong with those rankings.  I'd have a few people moved around, but generally those seem about right.

Soooo,

You rank the following players as having a better future than Jaylen Brown:

Andrew Drummond
Clint Cappela
Otto Porter
Lonzo Ball
Lauri Markennen
Jamal Murray
Aaron Gordon

I find that hard to believe.  Especially for someone who follows the Brown's games closely, and monitored his growth. I am an admitted homer, and may have him ranked too high, but still find his placement on this list way too low.

The only one that is questionable is Jamal Murray and maybe Lonzo depending on how you feel about his shot improving. Given the choice, I'd take every other player on that list before Jaylen.

I don't believe that Otto Porter, Jamal Murray, and Aaron Gordon have brighter futures than Jaylen Brown.

[Big333223]

I think Otto Porter is overrated at #15. He's an excellent 3-and-D wing but is there something else I'm missing? I don't see him as ever being anything other than a good ole player (which he is now). I think I'd rather have everyone ranked on this list before him except Markkenan and Saric.

[Moranis]

I think Otto Porter is overrated at #15. He's an excellent 3-and-D wing but is there something else I'm missing? I don't see him as ever being anything other than a good ole player (which he is now). I think I'd rather have everyone ranked on this list before him except Markkenan and Saric.

He has been a pretty darn good 3 point shooter the last two years, borderline elite.  Excellent defender.  Solid passer and rebounder.  I mean he is 7 missed free throws away from being a 50/40/90 player.  That said, he isn't a carry a team guy, but he is a very good player at 24.  Maybe he doesn't have the top end potential of someone like Brown, but there are no guarantees Brown will ever be as good as Porter is right now.

[kozlodoev]

List says Tatum can "guard four positions". LOL.

[wdleehi]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

Of course they could if they could be volume shooters like some of the other players mentioned.

Tatum is at 9.9 shots a game.   Brown at 11.4

[Snakehead]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

I for one agree with you, but  right now being the key.  I think the future when the game slows down more for them and they get better off the dribble and consistent night in and night out (I would say both look very aggressive some games then very not other games) both could be that type of player easily.   I wouldn't bet against either one.  But both are not guarantees either.  But I think they're both smart and play pretty good defense in addition to the rest so there's reason to be very high on them.

I spent a lot of time arguing against this idea when so many were saying Stevens was holding Tatum back and he could run the bench unit already and all that.  It proved to be nonsense as the chance came and went for him doing that if he could.

I don't care about any list personally.

[Moranis]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

Of course they could if they could be volume shooters like some of the other players mentioned.

Tatum is at 9.9 shots a game.   Brown at 11.4

who are these volume shooters you speak of on that list ahead of Brown and Tatum?

[nickagneta]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

Of course they could if they could be volume shooters like some of the other players mentioned.

Tatum is at 9.9 shots a game.   Brown at 11.4

who are these volume shooters you speak of on that list ahead of Brown and Tatum?

There are definitely players on that list that shoot 2-7 more shots per game than Tatum and Brown who's TS% is about equal to less than Tatum and Brown. If Tatum was on a poor team shooting the amount of shots Mitchell and Booker are, he would definitely be much higher on the list.

[Moranis]

I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.

Tatum and Brown can't handle more offensively at this point.  Brown, after all, has the 2nd most shots per game on the Celtics by almost a full shot more than Morris.  Tatum has plenty of chances to shoot more and doesn't.  They just aren't those type of players.

Of course they could if they could be volume shooters like some of the other players mentioned.

Tatum is at 9.9 shots a game.   Brown at 11.4

who are these volume shooters you speak of on that list ahead of Brown and Tatum?

There are definitely players on that list that shoot 2-7 more shots per game than Tatum and Brown who's TS% is about equal to less than Tatum and Brown. If Tatum was on a poor team shooting the amount of shots Mitchell and Booker are, he would definitely be much higher on the list.

Utah is well above .500, they aren't a poor team at all. 

Booker is obviously on a bad team, but he has a TS% of 56.6 which is better than Brown and worse than Tatum (though Tatum has been dropping consistently the second half of the year).  He isn't just putting up stats because he is shooting a lot, he is putting up stats because he is an incredible scorer and quite efficient.  He isn't some inefficient chucker who is only scoring because he is on a crap team and someone has to shoot. 

The thing is, there are plenty of shots available for both Brown and Tatum and they just don't take them.  It isn't a question of them needing more looks, it is a question of them not being able to handle more shots because they aren't that type of player right now.  They might develop into a #1 scoring option, but they might not (for the record I think Tatum will develop into an excellent scorer, but I don't think that is Brown's game at all).

[footey]

Jokic is ranked too high based on this year's performance.  Given too much credit for prior year.

Jokic is scoring more, rebounding more, assisting more, and shooting better from 3 and the line this year as opposed to last year. 

The only player in the league averaging at least 17 points, 10 rebounds, and 6 assists is Jokic.

Yes, on an absolute basis, that is true. However, his scoring average has only increased by 0.4 per game, and on a PER 40 basis, has actually declined several points from last season to this (24 to 21.7).  His rebounding on a PER 40 basis has also declined, from 14.1 to 13.4, and his total shooting percentage has also declined, from 64% to 59.5%.

His coach recently benched him for failing to hustle, which doesn't help may a case for his upside.

Look, I'm not saying Jokic is not a really good player. Just saying I don't think he should be ranked 5th.  I think this poll placed too much value on big men, and that is probably why he ended up going as highly as he did. Of course, if you were to ask me who would I put ahead of him, I'm not entirely sure. I think Tatum will eventually be more valuable then Jokic, but it's too early to say. Porzingis?  Probably, although his injury brings in a question mark for sure.

[Ilikesports17]

Anyone who puts Tyus Jones over Jaylen Brown shouldn't be allowed to vote in federal elections

[hpantazo]

ESPN finally published something interesting again regarding the NBA.

The list creates some great discussions if nothing else.