Author Topic: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)  (Read 6004 times)

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Offline footey

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Check out below. One of the "experts" didn't even have Jaylen on his list.  SMH.

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
Milwaukee Bucks
Forward
Age: 23.3

There's no bad answer in the debate between Giannis and Anthony Davis as the NBA's best player under 25, but I lean in the direction of the Bucks star because he's barely 23 -- more than a year and a half younger than Davis. Already, Antetokounmpo has established himself as a strong MVP contender, ranking fourth in the league in my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric. Antetokounmpo's versatility allows him to protect the rim on one end and run the offense at the other. Just imagine what he could do if he ever becomes a reliable outside shooter. Given his age, Antetokounmpo has plenty of time to add to his game. -- Pelton


2. Anthony Davis
New Orleans Pelicans
Forward/center
Age: 24.9

This is not a misprint. Davis still has not reached his 25th birthday (by a few days).

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A repeat performer on the all under-25 list, Davis is not only once again having an All-NBA season for New Orleans but is also posting a dominant stretch of games that has catapulted him into the MVP conversation. He's also on pace to play in more than 70 games, a feat he has accomplished only once (2016-17) in his career. With Davis' superman performance, New Orleans has climbed to the third-best record in the West (without DeMarcus Cousins) and has shown that Davis can carry a team riddled with injuries. Graduating out of the under-25 list next season does come with an advantage. Davis is in line for a $230 million extension during the summer of 2019 once he earns All-NBA this season. -- Marks


3. Joel Embiid
Philadelphia 76ers
Center
Age: 24.0

The 31-game sample last season teased the NBA with what the future could hold for Joel Embiid. In 786 minutes, Embiid showed himself to be a physical specimen who had the footwork of a boxer, the ability to post up or stretch the floor on offense and a defensive presence capable of blocking shots at an elite level. However, even with a scouting report that resembled an All-NBA player, the big question came back to health. Entering the first week of March, Embiid is on pace to double his games and minutes played from last season. This season he has earned an All-Star Game selection, soon to be All-NBA honors (likely second team), and a playoff berth -- all while averaging only 31 MPG. -- Marks


4. Karl-Anthony Towns
Minnesota Timberwolves
Forward/center
Age: 22.3

If the season ended today, Towns would join Dirk Nowitzki as the second member of the 50-40-85 club for 7-footers, according to Basketball-Reference.com, having made a career-high 41 percent of his 3-point attempts and 87 percent from the foul line. In his third season, Towns has found an ideal balance between hitting 3s against defenders who struggle to contain him on the perimeter and overpowering smaller opponents in the paint. Towns' defense remains a work in progress; he has made positive strides after ranking last among centers in ESPN's defensive real plus-minus (RPM) last season, but Towns is a factor in Minnesota's below-average defensive rating. -- Pelton


5. Nikola Jokic
Denver Nuggets
Center
Age: 23.0

The NBA's forgotten great young big man, Jokic hasn't been able to maintain the efficiency of his second season, when he made 63 percent of his 2-point attempts. But Jokic has taken on an even larger playmaking role on the NBA's sixth-best offense, handing out a career-high 6.0 assists per game -- the fifth-highest average ever for a player 6-foot-10 or taller, per Basketball-Reference.com. Jokic ranks 11th in the NBA in RPM and has kept the Nuggets in the playoff picture with Paul Millsap missing more than half the year. -- Pelton


T6. Ben Simmons
Philadelphia 76ers
Guard/forward
Age: 21.6

Even with Simmons putting up perhaps the most versatile rookie season in NBA history, his long-term potential remains a polarizing topic. It remains to be seen how much Simmons will be held back in a playoff setting by his lack of a perimeter game -- he has made just 15 shots all season beyond 15 feet, per Basketball-Reference.com, none of them 3s. Yet as a 6-foot-10 point guard -- a position he's playing at both ends -- Simmons brings so much other value that he was a legitimate All-Star candidate in his first season at age 21. -- Pelton


T6. Kristaps Porzingis
New York Knicks
Forward/center
Age: 22.6

The question of durability has Porzingis outside of the top five. Even before tearing his left ACL in a February game, Porzingis had missed 33 games due to injury in his first three seasons. Having said that, he is a franchise-level talent who offers a blend of size (7-foot-3), athleticism and the ability to play down low or stretch the floor. While there is still room for growth on the defensive side, Porzingis posted a career high in blocks (2.4) this season. Like Davis, Porzingis has been hampered by a roster that has been below average in his first three seasons. Eligible to sign a rookie extension this summer, Porzingis was in line for a $146 million contract extension, an offer the Knicks will likely table until there is a full recovery. -- Marks


8. Bradley Beal
Washington Wizards
Guard
Age: 24.7

While the Wizards aren't better without John Wall, they've survived without their star point guard thanks to Beal successfully shouldering a larger load on offense. He has averaged 21.6 points and 6.9 assists per game since Wall went out in late January, the latter mark nearly double last season's average of 3.5 per game. Beal is just as effective complementing Wall as a spot-up shooter, making him an ideal shooting guard for the modern NBA. -- Pelton


T9. Donovan Mitchell
Utah Jazz
Guard
Age: 21.5

The debate between Booker and Mitchell, both playmaking shooting guards drafted late in the lottery who took home trophies on All-Star Saturday, figures to rage for years to come. So it's only fitting they ended up tied on our list. Mitchell makes up for his relatively average shooting (35.1 percent on 3s) with superior finishing (he's shooting 64.8 percent inside 3 feet to Booker's 59.9 percent, per Basketball-Reference.com) and defense. The latter factor is key to Mitchell ranking ahead of Booker in RPM. -- Pelton


T9. Devin Booker
Phoenix Suns
Guard
Age: 21.4

Put Booker on a team competing for a playoff spot, and the 21-year-old would likely be in consideration for All-NBA honors while earning a spot in last month's All-Star Game. While Phoenix is headed to the lottery once again, Booker has emerged as one of the top shooting guards in the NBA. Not only is he averaging a career-best 25 PPG, but he's doing so as teams continue to devise game plans against him. -- Marks


11. Gary Harris
Denver Nuggets
Guard
Age: 23.5

There is a newcomer to the list. Harris is caught in a numbers game when it comes to guards in the Western Conference. Had he played in the East, Harris would likely have been in consideration for an All-Star spot this season. Part of a young nucleus that includes Jokic and Jamal Murray, Harris has been consistent in 2017-18, posting a career high in PPG (17.9) while shooting better than 40 percent from 3 for the second consecutive season. Per NBA Advanced Stats, Harris also has a true shooting percentage north of 60 percent. -- Marks


12. Andre Drummond
Detroit Pistons
Center
Age: 24.6

The lowest ranked of the seven 2018 All-Stars under 25, Drummond has made strides this season as a playmaker from the elbow (tripling his assist average to 3.4 per game) and free throw shooter (going from 38.1 percent for his career to 61.5 percent, good enough to put a stop to intentional fouls). Still, at 24, Drummond seems to have less upside to explore than the younger perimeter players ahead of him on the list. -- Pelton


13. Clint Capela
Houston Rockets
Center
Age: 23.8

When Houston drafted Capela with the No. 25 pick in 2014, the thought was that the center would be a long-term developmental project. Now, four years later, he has turned into one of the top defensive centers in the NBA, a key part of the Rockets' offense and a foundation player for the future. Per Cleaning the Glass, Capela ranks in the 90th percentile for his position in block rate (92 percent) and defensive rebounding rate (98 percent). A restricted free agent this summer, Capela would be considered a low-risk stock to invest in based on his high upside. -- Marks


14. Jayson Tatum
Boston Celtics
Forward
Age: 20.0

There are not many 20-year-olds who match Tatum's physical profile and skill level. A modern NBA forward with the ability to guard four positions, Tatum has emerged as one of the top rookies this season. Even after hitting the inevitable rookie wall, he continues to shoot 43.9 percent from 3. One area of improvement for the forward is rebounding. Per Cleaning the Glass, Tatum ranks in the 26th percentile in offensive rebounding rate (2.2 percent) and 46th percentile in defensive rebounding rate (13.4). -- Marks


15. Otto Porter Jr.
Washington Wizards
Forward
Age: 24.8

Ranking Porter on this list is tricky because he's clearly a more valuable player right now than some of the younger players ahead of him. An ideal role player, Porter is making better than 42 percent of his 3s for the second consecutive season and has increased his share of the Wizards' offense without sacrificing much efficiency. Yet Porter is never likely to become a go-to guy, giving him less upside than more inefficient shot creators. -- Pelton


16. Brandon Ingram
Los Angeles Lakers
Forward
Age: 20.5

Ingram is worlds better than he was as a rookie, particularly as a scorer and playmaker. Last month, he averaged a career-best 18.6 points while shooting almost 55 percent from the floor, coinciding with the team's winning streak. He has been more accurate than he was last year from nearly every level of the floor and is up to 38 percent from 3-point range after canning just 29 percent of those shots in 2016-17. He also has nearly doubled his assist average since then. The Lakers hope the 20-year-old will blossom the way that lanky stars Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo did. But even if he gets only halfway between that lofty status and where he is now, he can become an All-Star. -- Herring


T17. Steven Adams
Oklahoma City Thunder
Center
Age: 24.6

Give credit to Adams and the player development staff in Oklahoma City. If you scouted Adams at the University of Pittsburgh, the last place you think you would see the center would be on this list. Like Capela, Adams was deemed more of a project when he entered the NBA in 2013. Four years later, he has developed into OKC's interior cornerstone and the top offensive rebounder in the NBA. -- Marks


T17. Lonzo Ball
Los Angeles Lakers
Guard
Age: 20.4

After a tough start to his rookie campaign and having to deal with his father's criticism of Lakers coach Luke Walton, Ball has settled in and shown why he was the No. 2 pick in the 2017 draft. Along with Simmons, Ball is on track to join Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson as the only four rookies ever to average at least seven rebounds and seven assists per game, according to Basketball-Reference.com. Ball has also proven a better defender than advertised because of his size and ability to read plays. -- Pelton


19. Lauri Markkanen
Chicago Bulls
Forward
Age: 20.8

Markkanen has looked the part ever since the season started. The 7-footer became the fastest player in league history to drill 100 triples, an accomplishment that shows his offense fits the modern NBA like a glove. But his ability to move his feet on defense has been a revelation at times this season, too. A number of players, Porzingis in particular, learned the hard way that Markkanen is a far better, more versatile defender than he's given credit for. The next step for the Bulls will be figuring out how to help Markkanen and Kris Dunn mesh with Zach LaVine. -- Herring


20. Jamal Murray
Denver Nuggets
Guard
Age: 21.0

As a full-time starter in a season he began at age 20 (his 21st birthday was last month), Murray has shown he's one of the league's top young scorers. Murray is averaging 19.2 points per 36 minutes on the strength of 39 percent 3-point shooting, better than 50 percent shooting inside the arc and 90 percent from 3. No, he's not a true point guard, averaging just 3.7 assists per 36 minutes. But with Jokic to handle playmaking responsibilities and Harris to handle tough defensive assignments, Murray is in the perfect spot for his skills. -- Pelton


21. Aaron Gordon
Orlando Magic
Forward
Age: 22.5

As he completes his fourth season, Gordon is still younger than many of this season's rookies, including Lakers forward Kyle Kuzma. After last season's ill-fated experiment at small forward, Gordon has settled in as Orlando's starting 4 and is averaging a career-high 18.0 points per game. Developing 3-point range has been key to that improvement. After making just 29 percent of his 3s during his first three seasons, Gordon is up to 34 percent in 2017-18. -- Pelton


22. Jaylen Brown
Boston Celtics
Guard/forward
Age: 21.4

After shooting 29 percent from 3 during his lone college season, the knock on Brown entering the 2016 draft was whether the Cal product would develop into a consistent presence on the perimeter. Two years later, Brown is shooting 37 percent from 3 and nearly tripling his 3-point attempts from his rookie season (1.7 to 4.5). Though only 21, Brown has the potential to develop into one of the elite wings in the future based on his size, strong frame, wingspan and ability to play downhill. -- Marks


T23. Andrew Wiggins
Minnesota Timberwolves
Forward
Age: 23.0

Wiggins is trending down when it comes to this list. A year ago, the small forward was ranked No. 11. While Wiggins has a career average of 20 PPG, he has continued to regress this season in rebounding (4.1), assists (1.7), 3-point shooting (33.1 percent) and true shooting (51 percent). He is also on pace for a career low in win shares (1.57). With a $146 million rookie extension set to begin in July, one would hope that Wiggins' development this season would justify his contract. -- Marks


T23. Kyle Kuzma
Los Angeles Lakers
Forward
Age: 22.6

The Lakers rookie hasn't provided much defensive resistance at all this season, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone unhappy with his offense. A solid spot-up shooter already at 36 percent from deep, Kuzma's next step will be learning to defend quicker athletes at the power forward position. One thing that seemingly bodes well for the franchise heading into next year: Kuzma's plus-minus with Lonzo Ball is a plus-9 in about 800 minutes, up from a minus-132 in just over 1,000 minutes of playing time without Ball. -- Herring


T25. Myles Turner
Indiana Pacers
Center
Age: 22.0

All-Star Victor Oladipo (who, at 25, is too old to be eligible for this list) jumped ahead of Turner in the Indiana pecking order. Still, Turner's ability to stretch the floor (36 percent 3-point shooting) at 6-foot-11 has been valuable to the Pacers' offense. According to Second Spectrum data, the Pacers average 1.01 points per pick-and-roll when Turner is the screener, compared to 0.92 points with any other player. Add in the NBA's third-best block percentage, and you've got a promising secondary piece. -- Pelton


T25. Dario Saric
Philadelphia 76ers
Forward
Age: 23.9

Simmons and Embiid have garnered the national attention, but Saric continues to be the most consistent 76ers player this season. Saric's durability (missing only two games in two seasons), high basketball IQ and overall skill level stand out -- especially for a player who is 6-foot-10. Saric is also on pace to shoot 45 percent from the field, 39 percent from 3 and 90 percent from the line, an accomplishment more common for a guard. -- Marks

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 01:34:00 PM »

Online Moranis

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I see nothing wrong with those rankings.  I'd have a few people moved around, but generally those seem about right.
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Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 01:35:39 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think some of the experts are a little stuck on the "stat hanging" some players can do on teams that are lotto teams that lack other talents.  Both Tatum and Brown likely would be higher if they were on a team that used them more offensively.



Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 01:45:10 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Best part is Tatum is youngest on the list and Brown is 6th youngest. So they have alot of room to grow.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 01:47:55 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Can’t believe Beal is only 24

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 01:51:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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A) I'd rather have Anthony Davis than Giannis

B) I'd rather have Karl Towns than Joel Embiid

C) I'd much rather have Jaylen than Brandon Ingram.  I am skeptical on Ingram for the time being.  He only seems to put up numbers when the stakes are low (i.e. late in the year with his team in tank mode).

Overall it's not a crazy list, though I think they underrate Drummond a bit (dominating the boards is underrated) and I don't think Lauri Markkannen deserves such a high ranking yet.
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Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 02:07:57 PM »

Offline footey

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I see nothing wrong with those rankings.  I'd have a few people moved around, but generally those seem about right.

Soooo,

You rank the following players as having a better future than Jaylen Brown:

Andrew Drummond
Clint Cappela
Otto Porter
Lonzo Ball
Lauri Markennen
Jamal Murray
Aaron Gordon

I find that hard to believe.  Especially for someone who follows the Brown's games closely, and monitored his growth. I am an admitted homer, and may have him ranked too high, but still find his placement on this list way too low.


Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 02:11:53 PM »

Offline footey

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I'm most surprised how much Wiggins has dropped since last time. Wow.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 02:12:35 PM »

Offline footey

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Jokic is ranked too high based on this year's performance.  Given too much credit for prior year.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 02:13:51 PM »

Offline footey

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Also to rank Beal that high is misleading, as he is the oldest on the list, and it is supposed to measure future impact on the league.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 02:27:10 PM »

Offline footey

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ONe of the 3 evaluators, Chris Herring, had Tyus Jones and Markelle Fultz on the list, but did not include Jaylen Brown.  ???

Pelton has Ball at 9 and Tatum at 16.  ???

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 02:30:52 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Marcus Smart just turned 24.  I'd put him on this list in the twenties.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 02:33:44 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I see nothing wrong with those rankings.  I'd have a few people moved around, but generally those seem about right.

Soooo,

You rank the following players as having a better future than Jaylen Brown:

Andrew Drummond
Clint Cappela
Otto Porter
Lonzo Ball
Lauri Markennen
Jamal Murray
Aaron Gordon

I find that hard to believe.  Especially for someone who follows the Brown's games closely, and monitored his growth. I am an admitted homer, and may have him ranked too high, but still find his placement on this list way too low.

The only one that is questionable is Jamal Murray and maybe Lonzo depending on how you feel about his shot improving. Given the choice, I'd take every other player on that list before Jaylen.
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Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 02:38:14 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I see nothing wrong with those rankings.  I'd have a few people moved around, but generally those seem about right.

Soooo,

You rank the following players as having a better future than Jaylen Brown:

Andrew Drummond
Clint Cappela
Otto Porter
Lonzo Ball
Lauri Markennen
Jamal Murray
Aaron Gordon

I find that hard to believe.  Especially for someone who follows the Brown's games closely, and monitored his growth. I am an admitted homer, and may have him ranked too high, but still find his placement on this list way too low.



Markkanen, yes; Murray, maybe, but probably no.

Lauri hasn't been getting enough attention for just how good he has been this year.

Re: ESPN's 25 Under 25: Tatum ranked 14, Brown ranked 22 (no kidding)
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 02:43:42 PM »

Offline Eja117

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That was a pretty competitive list and does sorta imply he could be an all star some day