Lebron James "if I come into your building for game 1,I can be very challenging"

[Moranis]

And he can't even spell Jaylen right!   

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/971941812339326976

could have been auto correct.  But seriously even with the misspelling that is a nice message.

[celticsclay]

CLE was outmatched.

So despite all his greatness, it all comes to down to his team mates and supporting cast.  Which is why he should not say "I' so much.

When I come in your building I am going to be a difficult matchup. If we lose our team was outmatched

[celticsclay]

LeBron might surpass Jordan's career through longevity (he could be the only 40k-10k-10k player EVER), but the fact of the matter is that he has yet to match Jordan's 6-year peak, despite constantly bragging about his greatness.

So because he might only be a top 4 player of all time, he should just shut up?

Until somebody surpasses Jordan's dominance of winning 6 titles in 8 seasons, should no player ever be allowed to talk about how dominant they are over their current league?  A guy who has been to seven straight NBA Finals hasn't been dominant enough to talk about how he's not concerned about getting back to the Finals again?

What a boring league some of you guys want.

That's not at all what I said, and it's actually the opposite of what I believe.

I love LeBron's confidence. It is something very rarely seen in basketball (or America) these days. He takes pride in his craft, and he's not afraid to let people know about it. That's wonderful. It sets a standard of excellence which he has to push for. It makes the NBA more entertaining to follow. It helps promote sports cars, movies, important social causes, and basketball cards, which I collect (only basketball cards lol). It's made him a household name.

But, with big words comes big backlash. If LeBron wants to say he'll drop 50 on the next team he faces and he drops 10, should we not be allowed to make fun of him because he's "already secured his legacy and Nike promoted his comments way too much?" When he says he wants to surpass Jordan but then backtracks (remember his "Well I've already secured my legacy, so I don't care how this Finals goes" comment before the Finals?), should we not be allowed to mention that just because his counting stats are reaching Jordan's career numbers? When LeBron wants to talk about how dominant he is, can we not bring up that he has not dominated the 2010s like the Warriors have? LeBron sometimes comes off like he wants to convince everyone of how good he is, and it feels like he is compensating for something. He's going to be the greatest of all time on paper, but he's doing it slow-and-steady. And he wants the glory of a decade of dominance which he has not had. Is it out of our ability to point that out?

To suggest that poor, 33-year-old LeBron should not (cannot?) receive backlash when he fails to live up to the expectations he publicly sets for himself is silly. The "the media started it 15 years ago, so anything he says after that is because of big, bad Nike and Sports Illustrated" excuse is very poor. He is an intelligent man who has been in the spotlight for over half his life now. His "I'm so good" persona was and is a calulated risk that has yielded significantly more rewards than pitfalls. So when Lebron is asked about how his team (The Cavailers) would react to not having home court and he only responds with first-person pronouns (well I don't care because I'm good enough to give anyone problems anywhere), darn right we can give him crap for it. When Jordan said stuff like this, everyone shut up and agreed because he was that good.

Basically, LeBron has not reached the level of dominance that warrants the "shut up, he's too good to fall short" reasoning yet, and the "he doesn't want the attention, it's the 'hype machine' doing it all" excuse holds no water.

This

[celticsclay]

He doesn’t have more championships than Magic/Bird, but he made 8 (and 7 straight).... in an inferior conference

And lost far more than he has won in fact, he has not caused as many challenges on that level.  Isn't he like 3 won out of 8?  He has put up some great numbers in those games.   But guys like Bird, MJ, and Russell, won more than they lost.   LeBron is like on the top of the Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain heap which is still great players.

I realize it is a quite an accomplishment to get to that many finals.   But one would have to pick him as a league best player for 10+ years.   I think his finals record, is something that LeBron apologists always have issues with because he does not have the numbers and they are obligated to whip out this or that excuse.

3-5 is better than 3-2.  Not a better percentage, but a better achievement.  You shouldn't get credit for not making the finals and losing before they start.

I agree. The # of finals appearances is amazing.

He should have lost the first championship to SA. CLE was outmatched. He also should have lost the three series vs GS. Winning that second series was epic.

He probably shouldn't have lost to both SA and DAL when he was with MIA. That Heat team was very talented.

Yes, he's 3-5, but he could be 2-6 with only the MIA wins. Winning that second series vs GS has helped his legacy.

It's crazy that we're still saying this 10+ years later, but CLE still needs to put a championship team together. Right now they are Lebron James + a bunch of decent role players and a hurt Kevin Love.

I believe that James' teams have only been favored in the Finals his first two seasons in Miami.  The Heat might have been favored that first series against San Antonio, but I believe I read the Spurs were favored.  The Spurs were definitely favored the year they beat the Heat.  The Warriors have been the favorite all 3 seasons and the Spurs in 07 were heavy heavy favorites.

You and the odds https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2091231-nba-finals-2014-latest-odds-for-heat-vs-spurs-championship-series.amp.html

[libermaniac]

And he can't even spell Jaylen right!   

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/971941812339326976

could have been auto correct.  But seriously even with the misspelling that is a nice message.

Ya, I was just kidding.  Basketball is like a fraternity.  They got each others' backs.

[Moranis]

He doesn’t have more championships than Magic/Bird, but he made 8 (and 7 straight).... in an inferior conference

And lost far more than he has won in fact, he has not caused as many challenges on that level.  Isn't he like 3 won out of 8?  He has put up some great numbers in those games.   But guys like Bird, MJ, and Russell, won more than they lost.   LeBron is like on the top of the Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain heap which is still great players.

I realize it is a quite an accomplishment to get to that many finals.   But one would have to pick him as a league best player for 10+ years.   I think his finals record, is something that LeBron apologists always have issues with because he does not have the numbers and they are obligated to whip out this or that excuse.

3-5 is better than 3-2.  Not a better percentage, but a better achievement.  You shouldn't get credit for not making the finals and losing before they start.

I agree. The # of finals appearances is amazing.

He should have lost the first championship to SA. CLE was outmatched. He also should have lost the three series vs GS. Winning that second series was epic.

He probably shouldn't have lost to both SA and DAL when he was with MIA. That Heat team was very talented.

Yes, he's 3-5, but he could be 2-6 with only the MIA wins. Winning that second series vs GS has helped his legacy.

It's crazy that we're still saying this 10+ years later, but CLE still needs to put a championship team together. Right now they are Lebron James + a bunch of decent role players and a hurt Kevin Love.

I believe that James' teams have only been favored in the Finals his first two seasons in Miami.  The Heat might have been favored that first series against San Antonio, but I believe I read the Spurs were favored.  The Spurs were definitely favored the year they beat the Heat.  The Warriors have been the favorite all 3 seasons and the Spurs in 07 were heavy heavy favorites.

You and the odds https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2091231-nba-finals-2014-latest-odds-for-heat-vs-spurs-championship-series.amp.html

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

James' teams favored only twice.  Dallas and first San Antonio series in Miami (I thought it was OKC but the Thunder were actually favored).

[celticsclay]

He doesn’t have more championships than Magic/Bird, but he made 8 (and 7 straight).... in an inferior conference

And lost far more than he has won in fact, he has not caused as many challenges on that level.  Isn't he like 3 won out of 8?  He has put up some great numbers in those games.   But guys like Bird, MJ, and Russell, won more than they lost.   LeBron is like on the top of the Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain heap which is still great players.

I realize it is a quite an accomplishment to get to that many finals.   But one would have to pick him as a league best player for 10+ years.   I think his finals record, is something that LeBron apologists always have issues with because he does not have the numbers and they are obligated to whip out this or that excuse.

3-5 is better than 3-2.  Not a better percentage, but a better achievement.  You shouldn't get credit for not making the finals and losing before they start.

I agree. The # of finals appearances is amazing.

He should have lost the first championship to SA. CLE was outmatched. He also should have lost the three series vs GS. Winning that second series was epic.

He probably shouldn't have lost to both SA and DAL when he was with MIA. That Heat team was very talented.

Yes, he's 3-5, but he could be 2-6 with only the MIA wins. Winning that second series vs GS has helped his legacy.

It's crazy that we're still saying this 10+ years later, but CLE still needs to put a championship team together. Right now they are Lebron James + a bunch of decent role players and a hurt Kevin Love.

I believe that James' teams have only been favored in the Finals his first two seasons in Miami.  The Heat might have been favored that first series against San Antonio, but I believe I read the Spurs were favored.  The Spurs were definitely favored the year they beat the Heat.  The Warriors have been the favorite all 3 seasons and the Spurs in 07 were heavy heavy favorites.

You and the odds https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2091231-nba-finals-2014-latest-odds-for-heat-vs-spurs-championship-series.amp.html

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

James' teams favored only twice.  Dallas and first San Antonio series in Miami (I thought it was OKC but the Thunder were actually favored).

Just to let you know, cause you seem not to actually bet on this stuff if a team is -125 and the other team is -105 nobody that actually bets refers to the team that is -125 as a favorite. That is considered a pickem and you can find variance between books where the -125 is actually +105 if you line shop.

Side note I am actually in Vegas right now. If you want I can tell the sportsbook at the MGM that I want the favorite on -125 line tomorrow and record their confusion for you

[the TRUTH]

I've said it a ton here, but while James seems like a good guy away from basketball activities, he's easily the most obnoxious star athlete I've ever seen when it comes to basketball activities. When his team does well, it's because of him, but when they struggle, he points the finger at everyone but himself. He's the exact opposite of what a leader is supposed to be. He's been absolutely carried by other players at times, yet still gladly took all the credit for his team's success. Unbelievably talented player, but nowhere near as good historically as he - or many in the media - thinks he is.

Just the fact that he said "I" in the quote in the OP says all you need to know about him as a teammate. I'd have no problem if he said that about his team, as a lot of players and teams feel the same way. But to make it all about himself wreaks of insecurity and selfishness.

[Green-18]

I've always said that my criticism of LeBron is based upon the "greatest of all-time context".  LeBron has actively participated in the narrative, therefore I see no reason why we can't nitpick the small details of his failures.  After all this is what makes sports debates fun.  Setting bias aside, it's impossible to argue that he hasn't surpassed the lofty expectations placed upon him dating back to his high school days.

However, EVERY detail matters when we are discussing the greatest players of all time.  Would I argue that LeBron is the 2nd greatest of All-Time?  If longevity is weighted heavily then it's almost impossible to do so.  The other real question is would you pick LeBron over Bird, Magic, Kareem etc. at their absolute peak?  If you put me in a 7 game series I certainly can't take LeBron over Magic or Bird.  They both have leadership qualities and intangibles that are lacking in LeBron.  This speaks less to inherent flaws in LeBron and more to the sheer greatness of the other two.  I firmly believe that Magic or Bird at their peak would have won at least 3 titles with the equivalent talent LeBron had in Miami.  The Dallas series leaves a permanent stain when we are discussing GOAT status.