Author Topic: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality  (Read 7190 times)

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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2018, 01:26:22 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
Well, someone did say this on the Internet...
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2018, 01:30:57 PM »

Offline eja117

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I watched the Oscars because I watched the nominated movies, and had an opinion on which ones were the best. My wife and I created our own ballot (just for the 6 major categories) and compared results. Thus, it was a source of entertainment for us. Not everyone likes basketball, football, or movies. No one is forcing anyone to watch the Oscars or the Super Bowl. Like anything else in this world, it is your choice to participate or not.

The inclusion rider is similar to affirmative action. I'm ok with that. Many of my white friends are not. My take is that they feel threatened by people that are not white men. In addition, I think that they fear change. Without fear/anger, why do they have such strong emotions on a topic that doesn't change their life at all (don't like the movie, don't go pay to see it).

Please, someone convince me how their life will be worse by an inclusion rider in motion pictures.
I don't have a huge problem with the rider if that's what they want, but if followed through all the way it could get a tad whacky and I think it's also sorta a feel good thing du jour.

Like for example....let's say you're making a movie about special people. Will you use actors with disabilities? Or will you give an Oscar to a movie star to pretend they have one?

What if you make a movie taking place in Minneapolis (or Vermont)? Do you have to have just any minorities? Or should you really take pains to accurately depict the Islamic Somali community of that area?

What if you're making a movie about the NHL or pro tennis in the 1950s?

Who makes these rules?

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2018, 01:40:00 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
Well, someone did say this on the Internet...


What a terribly racist thing to say about Ukrainian people!

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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2018, 01:47:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
I think Sophia Vergara could definitely pull it off. 😉😂

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2018, 03:11:04 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
I think Sophia Vergara could definitely pull it off. 😉😂

Lots and lots of slow-motion shots of clutch jumpers.  Throw in Magic Johnson played by like William H Macy and Jordan as a hologram Air Bud and I'll camp out for tickets.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 03:23:55 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2018, 03:38:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
I think Sophia Vergara could definitely pull it off. 😉😂

Lots and lots of slow-motion shots of clutch jumpers.  Throw in Magic Johnson played by like William H Macy and Jordan as a hologram Air Bud and I'll camp out for tickets.
Lol...TP

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 04:47:06 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Idris Elba is a good actor. However, (book spoilers) Roland is white.  Susannah is black. A huge part of their mythology is the interaction between Susannahís racist alter-ego and Roland, along with the Odetta / Detta split. Race isnít interchangeable, particularly in this instance; it is essential to the characters.

I agree he is a superb actor.  But I know some guys who would not go see it because they liked the book and it says he looks like Clint Eastwood.   I know it sounds silly.   I have never read the book so I have no idea.   I plan to read it someday.


Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2018, 05:00:26 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Oscar viewership down 20% from last year....cause people are sick to death of Hypocrite,Whiny,Self absorbed Celebrities. HA.
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2018, 05:35:31 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I hate all this PC nonsense.  Just gives ammunition to white supremacist crowd.  Not only is the current US population still predominantly white but US history and modern world history has been predominantly driven by white European males.  Since movies are often historical there are going to be a lot of actors with white skin color in them. 

Labeling movies as "white movies" because they have a largely white cast is rather racist in my mind.  Cary Grant and Sidney Poitier were both great actors and two of my all-time favorites who just happen to have different skin coloring.  To separate them into being a "white actor" and a "black actor" is nonsense. 

The population that has much more of a complaint in Hollywood, and society in general, is women regardless of their race.  If I ask you to name top black actors, it is easy to start rattling them off: Denzel, Morgan Freeman, Samuel Jackson, Idris Elba, ...  Now name top black actresses:  ...  Older actors are still able to get good roles.  Older actresses not named Meryl Streep: ... Don't wait by the phone.

Confused about what exactly is the "PC nonsense".  You made your point about not wanting to separate "black" and "white" as if, in reality, people don't actually do this.  The frustration of discussing issues with those who like to dismiss other views as PC nonsense, is that it inhibits a straight discussion of what is (or isn't) actually happening in society (which we could probably agree on) and what we wish for or hope to be happening in society (which we also may agree on).   To deny that we label movies as having a predominantly white or black cast is just to deny reality.  We notice.  It is not racist to notice. And it is not nonsense to identify a possible societal issue and talk about how to (whether to) address it (which does include the option of letting it evolve without influence).

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2018, 05:51:23 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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  When bias, or nepotism, cronyism,... become the most likely explanation for disproportionaliy, something  needs to be done that the market will not take care of on its own.

Sure, if youíre a leftist that relies solely on the government to fix all of your problems. Instead of running to the government, run to fair markets. In a fair market, if there is discrimination, that entity will not survive in the long run because a competitor will snatch up the disenfranchised individuals.

As far as societyís bias towards white actors, if itís true, it means that black actors have to work harder or make movies that arenít just about ďblack lifeĒ (any Tyler perry movie). I like Denzel and DiCaprio fairly equally (a lot). But there are far fewer Denzelís in Hollywood and far more Anthony Andersonís. Also subject matter for the targeted audience matters. If youíre making a movie where blacks make jokes about ďwhite boysĒ, youíre expected to put off a fairly large segment of American population (your audience). Instead of focusing on changing why whites (or any customers) arenít watching the movies, focus on making racially neutral movies targeting as many people as possible. I mean this isnít rocket science. A movie is a product, and you have to position your product to attract as many customers as you can. Movies like inception, Shawshank redemption are racially neutral so they will target 100% of the market. Movies like Tyler perry will target 13% of the market, because theyíre solely about black culture which seems to be very uninteresting to someone who has little experience with it (a white person). An all black cast means nothing to me because Iím not a racist. If theyíre good and the story is good Iíll watch it. If the dialogue is 80% Ebonics that Iíll barely understand, Iíll pass. You donít change customers you change the product.

Kind of harsh to call "leftist" and to claim that anyone has suggested anything at all about government solving this.

I promise you that it is possible to have conversations with people who have different perspectives without name-calling or marginalizing by claiming extremism.   As far as I am concerned, I think the issue is a good one to discuss because I think disproportionality tells us something about society -- not always sure exactly what and not always the same thing -- but that's the point of the discussion.  There are far fewer people that you think who actually want the government to solve everything.  And with regard to the issue that I raised here (only for discussion and not asserting firm conclusions), I never said, nor did I even suggest, anything having to do with government intervention. Actually I find the idea of government involvement in racially-balancing movies an absurd idea.  How about that -- you agree with a "leftist"!

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2018, 06:18:28 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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But it'd be awfully weird to watch a movie about Larry Bird played by a Hispanic woman. I don't think that would likely be very captivating, nor entertaining.

I would unironically watch the hell out of this.

My mind immediately slipped over to noting that original Shakespeare was performed by all-male casts.

It would take a hell of a good Hispanic actress to pull it (portraying Larry Bird) off.  But if she's that good of an actress then yes, definitely worth watching.
I think Sophia Vergara could definitely pull it off. 😉😂

Lots and lots of slow-motion shots of clutch jumpers.  Throw in Magic Johnson played by like William H Macy and Jordan as a hologram Air Bud and I'll camp out for tickets.
Lol...TP

You guys are too cute   :o

But seriously, ain't nobody rushing out see to a movie about Larry bird portrayed by Sophia Vergara any more than they are a movie about Lisa Leslie portrayed by Tommy Lee Jones.  It's absurd, and no one in their right mind would make such a movie, other than maybe as some extreme parody.

But that's not really the point.  The point is, the outcome isn't that important, the process is what is important.

Take for example, the show "The Punisher".  John Bernthal is fantastic in the role of Frank Castle.  But it's seemingly a role that was written rather race neutral, and that an actor of any race could have been cast in that role.  I would have been just as captivated regardless of what race the actor playing the role was.

Bu the important question is, why was a white actor chosen over an actor of another race?

Was it because the producer/writer hates minorities and views them as inferior actors?  That would be disgustingly wrong, and furthermore, illegal.

Was it because the producer/writer thought a white actor would sell better to the public?  Well, this is maybe a gray area, but personally, I see no issue with that line of thinking most of the time.  The market dictates what the market dictates, and in truth, the market will probably dictate that a representative number of minority actors are given roles if studios are truly doing what is in their financial best interest.

Or, was it because of all the actors that auditioned for the part, John Bernthal was simply the most qualified?  Obviously no one should have any issue if this is in fact the answer.  And this is critical, because it has relevance to the following statements.

Quote
If we use this census then 77% of role ought to go to whites, 13 to African Americans,  Etc.   I am not certain that would be fair, but statistically it would be correct.   

Quote
Internet searches and social media mentions for "inclusion rider" spiked late Sunday night after Frances McDormand urged other actors to ask for them in contracts as a way to ensure gender and racial diversity in films.

"I have two words to leave with you tonight, ladies and gentlemen: inclusion rider," McDormand said, concluding her powerful acceptance speech for winning the best actress Oscar.

She expounded on the meaning of the term while speaking with reporters backstage, saying the clause allows actors to "demand at least 50 percent diversity in not only the casting, but also the crew."

Both of these statements fall flat, for the reasons I've outlined above.

In a society that truly treats all people as equal, and in which employment, among other things, is based on a non-bias system of meritocracy, it stands to reason given a large enough population any subset of the population should be approximately equally distributed.  Now, this doesn't inherently mean that it has to be, but given an equal interest in pursuit, and free from any biases, it most likely will be.

Any claims that a subset of the entire population that represents a minority of the overall population should inherently be entitled to a greater representation than their population share, are discriminatory, and should never be allowed.

Quite literally, the only thing that should matter is whether or not the most qualified person for the job actually got the job.  And if not, why?

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2018, 06:27:07 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Oscar viewership down 20% from last year....cause people are sick to death of Hypocrite,Whiny,Self absorbed Celebrities. HA.

More likely, folks just haven't seen any of the nominated movies and thus had no emotional investment in any of the candidates.

Folks are far more likely to tune into the Oscars if they have seen one or more of the nominees.

But this years nominees, while probably all deserving, nevertheless came from a cadre of films that resulted in only minimal box-office returns.   I'm pretty sure each of Wonder Woman or Thor:Ragnarok sold more tickets in their first couple of weeks than all of the best picture nominees combined for the whole year.   But those sort of films aren't nominated.



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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2018, 06:35:08 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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You guys are talking about the market taking care of everything. Why interfere with top actors installing an inclusion rider in their contracts? This isn't gov't intervention. It is the top talent (labor force) demanding a new working standard. Agree/disagree with the idea of such a rider, but it doesn't have anything to do with government interference.

If Gronk demands an inclusion rider in his blockbuster debut, the government doesn't need to intervene. If the production company violates one of his terms, he can sue and/or never work with said company again. That company will get a reputation for violating contract terms, whatever they may be.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2018, 06:47:14 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Oscar viewership down 20% from last year....cause people are sick to death of Hypocrite,Whiny,Self absorbed Celebrities. HA.

More likely, folks just haven't seen any of the nominated movies and thus had no emotional investment in any of the candidates.

Folks are far more likely to tune into the Oscars if they have seen one or more of the nominees.

But this years nominees, while probably all deserving, nevertheless came from a cadre of films that resulted in only minimal box-office returns.   I'm pretty sure each of Wonder Woman or Thor:Ragnarok sold more tickets in their first couple of weeks than all of the best picture nominees combined for the whole year.   But those sort of films aren't nominated.


I agree. I also think people aren't taking into account how much more absorbed the world has become with social media and how people like things to happen fast, most people don't want to sit and watch 10 minute videos much less the Oscars for 3-4 hours. Then add on the fact that people aren't watching tv as much. Times are changing, there is just too much access to so much stuff and at the tip of your finger, viewers are going to be lost. I imagine in about 10-15 years The Oscars will be on a small network if people are even watching much of tv at all by that then ( ;D I may be exaggerating on how tv is going down in flames).

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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2018, 07:08:04 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Oscar viewership down 20% from last year....cause people are sick to death of Hypocrite,Whiny,Self absorbed Celebrities. HA.

TP.

I think a lot of folk on both sides of the political spectrum are turned off hard by the politicization of so many events that used to be fun and entertaining.

Crap, if you want a political rally to be part of, turn on CNN or Fox, whatever your predilection, and listen to the one side that you favor so that your opinion can be "validated" by all the confirmation bias that you need.

Then everyone will only have to listen to and converse with people that believe the same thing that they do and never to have to hear a differing opinion.

Wait, isn't that what's already happening??

People better start listening to each other.