Author Topic: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk  (Read 1728 times)

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Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Soo you can tank, you just canít talk about tanking??? Lol
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Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 11:58:09 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Hypocritical until they fine when 76ers for ďtrust the process.Ē

What is the process? Someone tell me. If it involves tanking for a few years. Fine the 76ers and take their next few years draft picks
Hinkie didn't talk about tanking and he didn't tell his players that losing was the best option.
What? Thatís all he talked about...

Maybe weíre talking about different Hinkies? Iím talking about the old 76ers GM, the one that was open about having a 7 year rebuild plan that included getting as many future picks as possible, trading away most of their veteran players, and not trying hard to win current games. Which one are you talking about?
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Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 12:06:54 PM »

Online hodgy03038

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Cuban should have been smarter than that. What really p---es me off is that he can be that callous and just throw away 600k like it was nothing. And what does the NBA do with this fine money?


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Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 12:08:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time. 

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 01:43:50 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Soo you can tank, you just canít talk about tanking??? Lol
First rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club.

Second rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club.

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 02:03:02 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 02:26:53 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Soo you can tank, you just canít talk about tanking??? Lol
First rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club.

Second rule of Tank Club: Don't talk about Tank Club.

TP!

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 03:05:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.
Cuban openly admitted last year the Mavs were tanking, they just didn't start until they were a bad team after the year had started.  That is why they did things like waive Deron Williams so that Yogi Ferrell could get a ton of minutes.  It is why this summer they did absolutely nothing in free agency.  And when the Mavs strike out again in free agency, I totally expect them to tank again. 

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 03:53:38 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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pocket change

fine him making him pick LAST in draft

or

25 million .......get his attention.

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 04:23:15 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Soo you can tank, you just canít talk about tanking??? Lol

Just the same as with sexual harassment. As long as everybody keeps their mouth shut there's no problem  :-X .
Idiot.

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 06:01:37 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.
Cuban openly admitted last year the Mavs were tanking, they just didn't start until they were a bad team after the year had started.  That is why they did things like waive Deron Williams so that Yogi Ferrell could get a ton of minutes.  It is why this summer they did absolutely nothing in free agency.  And when the Mavs strike out again in free agency, I totally expect them to tank again.
Cuban admitted to tanking last year in his recent comments. 

Quote
"Adam would hate to be hearing that. But at least I sat down and I explained it to them. And I explained what our plans are going to be this summer, that we're not going to tank again. This is like a year and a half of tanking. That was too brutal for me."

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 06:12:30 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.
Who did the Sixers draft and USE?  What does that even mean? 

The Sixers gave a bunch of young low end players playing time to prove themselves while getting paid a nice NBA salary.  Most failed as would be expected but they have two undrafted successes in Covington and McConnell. 

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 07:27:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Who did the Sixers draft and USE?  What does that even mean? 



I think he's saying that the Mavs acquired players with the intent of trying to integrate them into a team that was meant to be entertaining and win games, whereas the Sixers during the time period only acquired players to fill out their roster, serve as pieces in trades, etc.  They were not making a good faith effort to build an actual roster that fans could be excited about.

Instead, they sold their fans on players to be drafted later.

Of course, I think you could argue the Sixers actually gave their fans a better product to be excited about, in a way, than the Mavs have the last several years.


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Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 08:10:03 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.
Who did the Sixers draft and USE?  What does that even mean? 

The Sixers gave a bunch of young low end players playing time to prove themselves while getting paid a nice NBA salary.  Most failed as would be expected but they have two undrafted successes in Covington and McConnell.

I can't think of a better word to use for what the Sixers did with MCW, Noel, Okafor, Turner, and Tony Wroten (among others). They were used for their prospect value and not treated like actual people, or actual players.

They were being used as commodities, or cogs in a machine. Trust the "process" indeed.

In comparison, the Celtics have developed players, made them important cogs to winning teams (not just empty stat guys) and made them money. They developed players in a way that allowed them to have a sustainable career in the NBA. That was true of Jordan Crawford, Evan Turner, Jared Sullinger, and Kelly Olynyk. It will be true of Smart, Rozier, Yabusele, Ojeleye, Larkin, Theis, Brown, and Tatum.

I know people will disagree with me on this, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion. I think what the Sixers did to the careers of Noel, Okafor, Wroten, MCW, and Turner (plus possibly more) in the name of the "process" was detestable. The players that lay in the wake of the process are normally forgotten as we assess it.

Players are not static commodities. Their ability on the court waxes and wanes with the stability of the organizations and how they develop them to have a long and successful career. The Sixers developed their players to be empty stat guys, and then traded them when they inflated their value. The guys I listed above may never recover from being part of the "process" in their formative years, even if they were able to be part of a stable organization moving forward.

That's what I mean by "used."

Re: Cuban fined 600k for tanking talk
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2018, 08:16:27 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This fine is a mockery. Its following the letter of the law perhaps, but not the spirit.

The Hawks, Suns, Kings, Magic, Grizzles, Bulls, and Knicks are currently in tank mode. There may not have been any official memos, but starting g-league players and holding out legit NBA players with fake injuries may as well be a memo.

The Sixers did far more to damage the competitiveness of the NBA than the Mavs. The Mavs have tried to do things the right way. They try to sign upside players (Barnes, Jordan, Matthews), they develop rotational talent in house (Barea, Curry, Kleiber, Powell, etc.), and they tried to win games. Where did it get them?

They've been a middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the West without a real shot at the championship for the last 7 years.

Meanwhile, in the same time, the Sixers had solid starting talent (Holliday, Iggy, Vucevic, Williams, and Young) and were also a middle-of-the-pack playoff team -- with their youth, they were on the rise. After the 2011-2012 season, they had 5 straight losing seasons, largely as part of the process.

Its the height of hypocrisy to follow the letter of the law with the Mavs while promoting the Sixers as one of the most exciting products in the NBA.

Still, if Cuban had to pay 600k to get a top 5 draft pick this year, I'm sure he would. If they pick right, it could set the franchise up for the next two decades.
Iggy and Vucevic were traded in the Bynum deal though.  You can't put that trade in anywhere the same category as the other trades.  In fact, it was that failed attempt to land a game changing star, that forced Philly into its terrible situation, since they not only traded Iggy and Vucevic, but also Harkless and a future 1st (which btw became #5 pick De'Aaron Fox).  Philly went all in in trying to acquire a star, and it destroyed their team.  They were left in a terrible situation when Hinkie took over, which is why they made the moves they did. 

The 15/16 Mavericks had the following people start at least 30 games that the team let go after the off season - Chandler Parsons, Raymond Felton, Zaza Pachulia.  They also let key rotation players David Lee and Charlie Villanueva leave.  Let's not pretend they were trying to win.  They did bring in Barnes, but Barnes isn't going to carry a team under basically any circumstances.  They brought back Deron Williams only to waive him at the deadline.  They did acquire Noel (for Anderson, Bogut, and a couple of 2nd's), and that didn't work, but even if it had was Noel going to make them a winner.  After all, Noel anchored those terrible Sixers teams.  The Mavs did absolutely nothing this past summer except eat the contract of Josh McRoberts (a pure tanking move).    The Mavs have been full on tanking for 1.5 seasons and unlike the Sixers have absolutely nothing to show for it (I mean Fox wasn't even from their own pick).  The Sixers did it for 3 seasons.  In the past teams like the Sonics/Thunder blatantly tanked for 2.5 seasons.  I just don't get the hate for the Sixers, when everyone in the league has been tanking for the dawn of time.

Meh. I get your point about the early Sixers trade, but that was a homerun or strikeout type of move. They struck out, which sent them into tank mode.

As far as the Mavs go, the moves they have made (before this season) have been about trying to win, not trying to tank. Barnes, Noel, Matthews, Williams, Barea, were all solid moves. Moving on from Villanueva (left the league), Felton (struggled to find a new team), and Parsons (who didn't play enough to warrant his contract) were smart moves made in an attempt to win more games, not lose more games.

If the Mavs tanked last year, they wouldn't have had the 9th pick. They were a middle-of-the-pack team because they tried to win and failed.

This year they have been tanking. I would say they do have something to show for their rebuild in Smith. They, you know, actually drafted a player they could build around, instead of drafting and USING young players like the Sixers did.
Who did the Sixers draft and USE?  What does that even mean? 

The Sixers gave a bunch of young low end players playing time to prove themselves while getting paid a nice NBA salary.  Most failed as would be expected but they have two undrafted successes in Covington and McConnell.

I can't think of a better word to use for what the Sixers did with MCW, Noel, Okafor, Turner, and Tony Wroten (among others). They were used for their prospect value and not treated like actual people, or actual players.

They were being used as commodities, or cogs in a machine. Trust the "process" indeed.

In comparison, the Celtics have developed players, made them important cogs to winning teams (not just empty stat guys) and made them money. They developed players in a way that allowed them to have a sustainable career in the NBA. That was true of Jordan Crawford, Evan Turner, Jared Sullinger, and Kelly Olynyk. It will be true of Smart, Rozier, Yabusele, Ojeleye, Larkin, Theis, Brown, and Tatum.

I know people will disagree with me on this, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion. I think what the Sixers did to the careers of Noel, Okafor, Wroten, MCW, and Turner (plus possibly more) in the name of the "process" was detestable. The players that lay in the wake of the process are normally forgotten as we assess it.

Players are not static commodities. Their ability on the court waxes and wanes with the stability of the organizations and how they develop them to have a long and successful career. The Sixers developed their players to be empty stat guys, and then traded them when they inflated their value. The guys I listed above may never recover from being part of the "process" in their formative years, even if they were able to be part of a stable organization moving forward.

That's what I mean by "used."

I certainly don't think anyone that is trying to be objective can say there isn't a pretty reasonable chance the careers of noel and okafor were destroyed by the process. That was of the few things I thought was valuable from the recent piece about Hinkie. The other gms mentioned that Hinkie didn't even like to be around the players early on and the gms commented there was no guidance for the really young players as humans. For some players, this wouldn't have mattered. Embiid seemed to just fine with it despite not even playing for two years. Okafor and Noel seemed to come into the situation with their own maturity issues and probably needed extra attention from staff as humans to keep their careers on track. I don't know if Okafor would have been getting in fights, driving around at a hundred miles per hour on bridges and getting guns pulled on him at clubs if he had some vets and more support in place for him. I don't know if Noel is trashing houses, skipping practices and pouting as much in a different situation. It now appears unlikely that those guys will have super impressive careers at this point and I do wonder if they would have been better players on a different team.