Author Topic: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie  (Read 855 times)

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GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« on: February 21, 2018, 03:52:22 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thought this article may be interesting to some given we debated it for many hours over the years.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759830-there-will-never-be-another-process-or-a-gm-job-for-sam-hinkie

A few points, the fellow GMs do really lean towards painting him in a negative light for his interactions with them and agents. It is kind of insinuated that Porzingas didn't work out for him because of his style/interactions with players, and interestingly thrown in that they didn't have access to Okafor's medical records (can someone explain how this is possible).

Overall, it seems like he is a really smart dude and is probably out of the league because of his people skills and not playing within the system enough.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 04:09:09 PM by Donoghus »

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 04:35:19 PM »

Online Moranis

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nothing really all that new there.  I would have been very interested to see what Hinkie could have done once he actually entered into the team building phase. 

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 04:44:01 PM »

Online Donoghus

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This part is pretty [dang]ing of his ways.   Gotta learn to play the game and part of the game is relationships with agents & other teams. Like it or not.

Quote
Hinkie also aggravated agents by introducing a novel approach to contracts for second-round picks and free agents—multiyear, partially guaranteed deals. The idea from Hinkie's end was to trade the allure of longer-term security for fringe players while keeping the risk factor for the team manageable.

At times, that hurt Hinkie and the 76ers with agents miffed by this new negotiating ploy. Some paid him back by refusing to share information with him or provide access to their players, no matter where they were expected to fall in the draft. Porzingis' refusal to visit or work out for Philly is one example; league sources say Hinkie also didn't have full access to Okafor's medical records prior to drafting him.

"The environment was so toxic that agents, schools and teams wanted nothing to do with him," the second Western Conference GM said.


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Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 05:01:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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My impression is that Hinkie was excellent at the team building strategy and squeezing maximum value from transactions, but he really needed an Assistant GM to handle the agents, personalities, etc.
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Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 05:33:17 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This part is pretty [dang]ing of his ways.   Gotta learn to play the game and part of the game is relationships with agents & other teams. Like it or not.

Quote
Hinkie also aggravated agents by introducing a novel approach to contracts for second-round picks and free agents—multiyear, partially guaranteed deals. The idea from Hinkie's end was to trade the allure of longer-term security for fringe players while keeping the risk factor for the team manageable.

At times, that hurt Hinkie and the 76ers with agents miffed by this new negotiating ploy. Some paid him back by refusing to share information with him or provide access to their players, no matter where they were expected to fall in the draft. Porzingis' refusal to visit or work out for Philly is one example; league sources say Hinkie also didn't have full access to Okafor's medical records prior to drafting him.

"The environment was so toxic that agents, schools and teams wanted nothing to do with him," the second Western Conference GM said.

This is the part that I was confused by. Can players really hide medical records from teams just cause they don't like their ownership? I had not heard of that before. Are they personal records, or are there things that have to be disclosed because of the draft? There has to be some element of requirement because otherwise players could hide a serious condition until after they were drafted...?

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 06:03:59 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 06:07:38 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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This part is pretty [dang]ing of his ways.   Gotta learn to play the game and part of the game is relationships with agents & other teams. Like it or not.

Quote
Hinkie also aggravated agents by introducing a novel approach to contracts for second-round picks and free agents—multiyear, partially guaranteed deals. The idea from Hinkie's end was to trade the allure of longer-term security for fringe players while keeping the risk factor for the team manageable.

At times, that hurt Hinkie and the 76ers with agents miffed by this new negotiating ploy. Some paid him back by refusing to share information with him or provide access to their players, no matter where they were expected to fall in the draft. Porzingis' refusal to visit or work out for Philly is one example; league sources say Hinkie also didn't have full access to Okafor's medical records prior to drafting him.

"The environment was so toxic that agents, schools and teams wanted nothing to do with him," the second Western Conference GM said.

This is the part that I was confused by. Can players really hide medical records from teams just cause they don't like their ownership? I had not heard of that before. Are they personal records, or are there things that have to be disclosed because of the draft? There has to be some element of requirement because otherwise players could hide a serious condition until after they were drafted...?
Josh Jackson didn't work out for us but I also seem to recall him withholding some medical records. 

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 06:13:35 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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TP thanks nice article

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 06:52:49 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

I'm kind of confused why you believe GMs that still have jobs would have sour grapes towards hinkie when they still have their jobs and he was forced out of league. It would make a lot more sense for hinkie to be the sour one right?

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 07:14:26 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

I'm kind of confused why you believe GMs that still have jobs would have sour grapes towards hinkie when they still have their jobs and he was forced out of league. It would make a lot more sense for hinkie to be the sour one right?
sour grapes - used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves:

Plenty of GMs would try what Hinkie did if they had the ownership backing. 

Edit - Its also pretty gutless for them to cut Hinkie down anonymously. 

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 07:23:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

I'm kind of confused why you believe GMs that still have jobs would have sour grapes towards hinkie when they still have their jobs and he was forced out of league. It would make a lot more sense for hinkie to be the sour one right?
sour grapes - used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves:

Plenty of GMs would try what Hinkie did if they had the ownership backing. 

Edit - Its also pretty gutless for them to cut Hinkie down anonymously.

This still isn't making much sense the way you are wording it here. They have a job (and very desirable jobs at that). He doesn't. This article also suggests he would be very unlikely to be given a GM job again in the future. And you are suggesting that they have sour grapes towards Hinkie because when he did actually have a job, he had more freedom in it than they do in their actual current role? On top of that, they have remained upset for more than a year after he lost his job even though they are still getting paid and running a team? That sounds like a pretty big stretch.

To put this in a bigger perspective, I had a coworker that was super casual about everything a few years ago at my job. He came in at 10am and did things very leisurely and did a lot less work than I did while also receiving very similar pay and no punishment. It was very frustrating for a while (because at times it created needless extra work for me) He eventually got worse reviews than I did though and then moved out of the company. I can't imagine for the life of me being upset at this guy a year or more later while I am still working cause he had it good at some point in the past.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 07:29:34 PM by celticsclay »

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 07:59:54 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

I'm kind of confused why you believe GMs that still have jobs would have sour grapes towards hinkie when they still have their jobs and he was forced out of league. It would make a lot more sense for hinkie to be the sour one right?
sour grapes - used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves:

Plenty of GMs would try what Hinkie did if they had the ownership backing. 

Edit - Its also pretty gutless for them to cut Hinkie down anonymously.

This still isn't making much sense the way you are wording it here. They have a job (and very desirable jobs at that). He doesn't. This article also suggests he would be very unlikely to be given a GM job again in the future. And you are suggesting that they have sour grapes towards Hinkie because when he did actually have a job, he had more freedom in it than they do in their actual current role? On top of that, they have remained upset for more than a year after he lost his job even though they are still getting paid and running a team? That sounds like a pretty big stretch.

To put this in a bigger perspective, I had a coworker that was super casual about everything a few years ago at my job. He came in at 10am and did things very leisurely and did a lot less work than I did while also receiving very similar pay and no punishment. It was very frustrating for a while (because at times it created needless extra work for me) He eventually got worse reviews than I did though and then moved out of the company. I can't imagine for the life of me being upset at this guy a year or more later while I am still working cause he had it good at some point in the past.
I can't imagine putting much worth in quotes from anonymous GMs.  It could be Presti or it could be Vlade. 

And Ric Bucher is a Process hater.  Here's what he tweeted on 21 Nov 2015.
Quote
I'm ready to Trust The Process. The Knicks' process. Inducing young talent to lose year after year isn't a process, it's negligence.

Re: GMs share thoughts on Hinkie
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 12:23:01 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Pretty crappy story but its bleacher report so what can you expect.  Some sour grapes from a couple anonymous GMs and execs when The Process is starting to bear fruit.   

The Sixers absolutely needed to lose as much as they did and really needed to lose more.  They only finished with the worst record and the #1 pick the year they drafted Simmons. 

The whole point of The Process was that you can't expect to draft that much better than other teams so you needed to improve the quality and quantity of your picks.  To bring up Gobert picked 27th when the Sixers picked 11th and Turner and Booker picked 11th and 13th when the Sixers picked 3rd is nonsense.  I'd like to see the draft records of these anonymous GMs.   

Porzingis didn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play in New York not because of Hinkie.  He was also considered a project.  He also would have been yet another big drafted just like Okafor. 

Embiid, Simmons, Saric and Covington plus a few backups plus plenty of cap space and no bad contracts (except Bayless who is on Colangelo).  That's pretty good for 3 years of the process.

I'm kind of confused why you believe GMs that still have jobs would have sour grapes towards hinkie when they still have their jobs and he was forced out of league. It would make a lot more sense for hinkie to be the sour one right?
sour grapes - used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves:

Plenty of GMs would try what Hinkie did if they had the ownership backing. 

Edit - Its also pretty gutless for them to cut Hinkie down anonymously.

This still isn't making much sense the way you are wording it here. They have a job (and very desirable jobs at that). He doesn't. This article also suggests he would be very unlikely to be given a GM job again in the future. And you are suggesting that they have sour grapes towards Hinkie because when he did actually have a job, he had more freedom in it than they do in their actual current role? On top of that, they have remained upset for more than a year after he lost his job even though they are still getting paid and running a team? That sounds like a pretty big stretch.

To put this in a bigger perspective, I had a coworker that was super casual about everything a few years ago at my job. He came in at 10am and did things very leisurely and did a lot less work than I did while also receiving very similar pay and no punishment. It was very frustrating for a while (because at times it created needless extra work for me) He eventually got worse reviews than I did though and then moved out of the company. I can't imagine for the life of me being upset at this guy a year or more later while I am still working cause he had it good at some point in the past.
I can't imagine putting much worth in quotes from anonymous GMs.  It could be Presti or it could be Vlade. 

And Ric Bucher is a Process hater.  Here's what he tweeted on 21 Nov 2015.
Quote
I'm ready to Trust The Process. The Knicks' process. Inducing young talent to lose year after year isn't a process, it's negligence.

If you want to say you think the author has an agenda or it may be someone that is incompetent like vlade that is one thing. I just hope you realize your "sour grapes" phrasing of gms jealous of the unemployed guy couldn't make less sense