Author Topic: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)  (Read 4061 times)

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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 03:23:30 PM »

Offline number_n9ne

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I always want to trade up, which never happens, but I think Robert Williams in the teens would be such a steal. I would trade the 2018 and 2019 BOS first round pics to move up for him. Targeting the Clippers (who's pick we own in 2019 protected 1-14) would be a good strategy. We could even trade them back their own pick.
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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 03:41:46 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I always want to trade up, which never happens, but I think Robert Williams in the teens would be such a steal. I would trade the 2018 and 2019 BOS first round pics to move up for him. Targeting the Clippers (who's pick we own in 2019 protected 1-14) would be a good strategy. We could even trade them back their own pick.
I'd love to get Robert Williams.  Fox and Williams were my favorites in last years draft until Williams pulled out. Unfortunately our two picks aren't going to get him.  I think he'll go top 10.  Williams is really being underutilized and poorly utilized at Texas A&M. 

Here's a good highlight clip from a recent game against Arkansas.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQn1mQ2fP0 

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 03:55:26 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Slightly off-topic: now that we are well into the season, has anyone heard recent opinions from experts about how this draft stacks up, compare to last year or next year?

This draft has some really good early talent but seems to drop off quickly. Compared to last year its debatable who has the better top tier talent but 2017 was certainly deeper.


Looking at Chad Fords Tiers from last draft. He has 19 players he viewed as NBA starters

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA

Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)

De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky

Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State

Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas

Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona

Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky

Frank Ntilikina, PG, France

Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State

Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

Tier 3 (NBA starters)

OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana

Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga

Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke

Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke

Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)

Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas

Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA

John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest

Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This year I would suspect the tiers to look something like this (my quick stab at tiers)

Tier 1 (potential super star)

Doncic
Ayton

Tier 2 (potential all star)

Jackson
Porter
Bamba
Young
Bagley

Tier 3 (NBA Starter)

Bridges
Bridges
Carter

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)

Williams
Sexton
Knox

That's 13 players who are pretty consistently ranked as the top of this draft class.
 




Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 05:27:07 PM »

Offline Erik

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I hate to say it but this deal is getting worse all the time.  I love kyrie but if we keep it does Hayward get hurt?  Do we get the nets pick, do we have a deeper bench?  Someone convince me we still amdenthe right move :-[

I mean we can kick the tires here again.

How's this? Isaiah Thomas is statistically the worst player in the NBA that plays over 25 mpg.

http://on.nba.com/2BHWoxi

I don't generally use nba.com stats to prove points because basketball reference has much better stats algorithms, but they also don't have a way to filter out players that barely play and I didn't want to post a table that shows him actually 60th worst. When you remove the noise, he's the worst actual player there as well depending on whether or not you consider Derrick Rose to be an actual player (I don't).

His BPM is -6.4 (-2.0 offense and -4.4 defense), his VORP is -0.5 and his PER is 11.7. He is not playing well at all. He is actually statistically worse than the average replacement player, which isn't something that you want when you're comparing someone against Kyrie Irving.

Just for reference: Kyrie Irving BPM 5.8 (6.5 off -0.8 def), VORP 3.4 and PER 24.5. You can clearly see the large difference.

He's also visually the worst player in the NBA. He's so bad that he was just traded for a Lakers salary dump and has virtually no trade value remaining. He was clearly a major reason that the Cavs were playing horrible. He is playing defense that doesn't resemble anything of a professional NBA athlete. His shooting percentage is worse than Lonzo Ball's.

You can play a lot of what ifs about Hayward not being injured if Kyrie didn't come, but obviously that a nonsensical argument because management can't make personnel decisions through hindsight of freak injuries. If we didn't trade for Kyrie and Hayward is still injured, I don't think we're in the playoffs right now.

The Brooklyn pick is nice, but Kyrie is a guaranteed superstar. If that Nets pick falls anywhere outside the top 5, historically that will be a good starter at best. Someone nowhere near on Kyrie's level. If it falls within the top 5, it's a roll of the dice on whether or not that player can ever get to Kyrie's level. The odds are not in that person's favor given how talented Kyrie is.

Now, let's go on to contract situation. Kyrie would be eligible for a reasonably priced under 10 year vet max deal... and it doesn't happen until 2019 offseason. IT would still be clamoring about Brinks trucks. Based on his current performance, obviously we'd let him walk to some idiotic GM like Philly who would pay him about 15-20 mil because no one wants to play there. But lets say he actually played like the 5th vote getter in the MVP race. Do you want to put a supermax contract to a 5'9" 30 year old?

The pick bought us a better player and unraveled a bad contract situation. The front office has clearly recognized the pitfall of entering the repeater tax too quickly without a winning team. I made a point of this in another thread in which people claimed LeBron James is worth something astronomical 80-100 million a year. Teams just can't afford it. The longer we delay the repeater, the longer our reign will be once the team is finalized.

So, no. We didn't make a mistake.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 05:32:54 PM by Erik »

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 05:42:12 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Dang ... all those promising centers, and the Cs may end up with none of them. :'(
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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 06:32:00 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Dang ... all those promising centers, and the Cs may end up with none of them. :'(
Its okay DA would have traded down for Mikal Bridges and 2 first
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 06:46:52 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Dang ... all those promising centers, and the Cs may end up with none of them. :'(
Its okay DA would have traded down for Mikal Bridges and 2 first

Mikal Bridges is my binkie. I like Jaren Jackson, but I'm not convinced he's anything more than 3 & D super role player.
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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 07:14:34 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Dang ... all those promising centers, and the Cs may end up with none of them. :'(
Its okay DA would have traded down for Mikal Bridges and 2 first

LOL. Or a "combo" guard who can't shoot.

Or a 6-8 "big."

:P
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 10:02:41 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Positively need to hire a shrink for our scouting.....no headcases from left field ala Fultz.

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 10:17:53 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I like Wendell Carter Jr. Obviously not enough to drop down, or reach on him, but I believe he is going to make some team really happy.

6'10 and 260 lbs of muscle with long arms(7'3.) The fact he has shown glimpses of stretching his shot to 3, means he may have a place in the modern NBA. He is truly able to feast on opposing frontcourts via scoring and dominant rebounding. He needs to go to a team with spacing. The Bulls would be an interesting spot.

Dunn/Lavine/Markkanen/Carter could be a very good team.
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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2018, 01:57:15 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Slightly off-topic: now that we are well into the season, has anyone heard recent opinions from experts about how this draft stacks up, compare to last year or next year?

This draft has some really good early talent but seems to drop off quickly. Compared to last year its debatable who has the better top tier talent but 2017 was certainly deeper.


Looking at Chad Fords Tiers from last draft. He has 19 players he viewed as NBA starters

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA

Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)

De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky

Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State

Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas

Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona

Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky

Frank Ntilikina, PG, France

Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State

Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke

Tier 3 (NBA starters)

OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana

Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga

Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke

Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke

Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)

Jarrett Allen, C, Fr., Texas

Ike Anigbogu, C, Fr., UCLA

John Collins, PF, So., Wake Forest

Justin Patton, C, Fr., Creighton

This year I would suspect the tiers to look something like this (my quick stab at tiers)

Tier 1 (potential super star)

Doncic
Ayton

Tier 2 (potential all star)

Jackson
Porter
Bamba
Young
Bagley

Tier 3 (NBA Starter)

Bridges
Bridges
Carter

Tier 4 (Starters, high-level rotation players)

Williams
Sexton
Knox

That's 13 players who are pretty consistently ranked as the top of this draft class.

I think Porter, Bagley, and maybe Bamba are all tier 1.

Maybe Trae Young too.

Generally this year's draft is top heavy, whereas last year had fewer bluechippers (many people thought Tatum was super risky, Ball can't shoot, even Fultz had some pretty big concerns over his defense), but more depth (virtually all top 16 guys are playing a significant role in their team's rotations, lots of late first nuggets - Allen, Anunoby, Kuzma).
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2018, 09:52:26 AM »

Offline nostar

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Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2018, 10:40:05 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Positively need to hire a shrink for our scouting.....no headcases from left field ala Fultz.

I think our last few draft picks suggest that we already have one.

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2018, 05:03:28 PM »

Offline wiley

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recent binkies for pick 26 or 27:

1.  Khyri Thomas (21 on ESPN mock...later on others)
2.  Zhaire Smith
3.  Mushidi
4.  Hutchison

K. Thomas might be good enough to mitigate Rozier's loss in a trade for a big, or to help ease the loss of Smart if that unfortunate event occurs, though I don't know what his year 1 contribution will look like.


edit:  also in favor of stashing Bonga if he's still available.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 06:12:03 PM by wiley »

Re: Newest ESPN mock draft (2/20/18)
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2018, 07:35:51 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Looking at Chad Fords Tiers from last draft. He has 19 players he viewed as NBA starters

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)

Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA

Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington

Boy, he was way off on these two in retrospect but then the ESPN guys are wrong a lot because they are more about hype than substance.