Author Topic: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense  (Read 7797 times)

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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2018, 11:11:03 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Pretty big tangent here, but Jeff Green is actually having pretty nice year in Cleveland. That career 32% from three just kills him though.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2018, 01:52:08 AM »

Offline byennie

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2018, 02:12:35 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
Not sure I agree.

By virtue of his length and frame, I think Brown could really be an unbelievable defender.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2018, 02:40:02 AM »

Offline byennie

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
Not sure I agree.

By virtue of his length and frame, I think Brown could really be an unbelievable defender.

Ceiling is maybe the wrong word here. What I mean is that Bradley had an elite ability to shut down PGs early in his career. Brown might get there, but I'd say he's more versatile than elite in any particular matchup right now.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2018, 03:16:03 AM »

Online keevsnick

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I think what's impressed me about Jaylen Brown recently is that he is showing growth in a number of different offensive areas. He has began showing some more consi/ stent advanced dribble moves both in transition in half court. The between the legs crossover he had a couple weeks ago, the inn and out dribble on the dunk against Kristaps being examples. He has demonstrated a more varied 3pnt arsenal including hitting some shots coming off screens or on step backs in Iso situations (the wizards OT shot for example). He's done a much better job finding guys for kick outs on drives or dump offs when he gets penetration. And then as Lowe as pointed out he's shown at least some promise in pick and roll. Obviously he's still raw with a lot of these skills, but the fact that he's showing them more means he's developing them. You can begin to see a path on how he could reach all star level offensive output if he continues to make gains in  these areas.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:04:38 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2018, 03:44:11 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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I think offensively brown needs some "go to" moves. defensively I think he's been a bit of a disappointment considering he's supposed to be a defensive minded player. I think maybe he's trying to do too much on that end instead of focusing on his guy 1st. that and the switching style D we play probably doesn't help him.

I think his defense has been great.

For instance, he holds opposing players to 39.4% shooting (lowest on the team), 6.1 raw percentage points below their normal average.

That 39.4% is 6th best in the NBA among guys who have played 45 games, 1st among guys who have started at least 50% of the time.

Honestly I'm not surprised. I said that I think that Brown is undervalued and I stick with that. Brown should be in consideration for the NBA All-Defensive Team. His man-to-man defense is fantastic.

Team defense could be better, but maybe he doesn't understand that other players get frequently beat by dribbles or pick-and-roll, where's often able to stay in front of his man or recover thanks to his length and athletism.

AB also struggles with team D, he got better through the years though. I think JB has even more of the physical tools to be able to do both at a high level and I think in the end he is going to excel as an all around defender. I think JB is an underrated defender too. I think he could be our best man defender and I think Horford is our best team defender. I know everyone says it's Smart and I wont argue it too much but I just don't feel Smart brings it all game like people rave about. I also find it hard to say Smart is the best just because he has the luxury to expend more energy on D. It was the same for AB early in his career and why people think he was better then. If a guy doesn't have to expend as much offensive energy, it's much easier to go all out on D. As his career has gone on AB started contributing more on offense so his D suffered.

I think JB is blessed with the physical ability and mental makeup to be great on offense and defense and do them both at a top level consistently, like KL and Butler.  Just give him time and experience and that guy is gonna be something IMO.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2018, 07:45:02 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I think what's impressed me about Jaylen Brown recently is that he is showing growth in a number of different offensive areas. He has began showing some more consistent advanced dribble moves both in transition in half court. The between the legs crossover he had a couple weeks ago, the inn and out dribble on the dunk against Kristaps being examples. He has demonstrated a more varied 3pnt arsenal including hitting some shots coming off screens or on step backs in Iso situations (the wizards OT shot for example). He's done a much better job finding guys for kick outs on drives or dump offs when he gets penetration. And then as Lowe as pointed out he's shown at least some promise in pick and roll. Obviously he's still raw with a lot of these skills, but the fact that he's showing them more means he's developing them. You can begin to see a path on how he could reach all star level offensive output if he continues to make gains in  these areas.

Yeah, for all the criticism his handle gets, I think it's actually pretty strong. His problem is reading defenses. He often dribbles into traffic or he'll spin right into a defenders chest instead of around them. Things like that. That's not a problem with his ball control, it's his decision making.
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2018, 08:22:36 AM »

Offline kmart12

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I think what's impressed me about Jaylen Brown recently is that he is showing growth in a number of different offensive areas. He has began showing some more consistent advanced dribble moves both in transition in half court. The between the legs crossover he had a couple weeks ago, the inn and out dribble on the dunk against Kristaps being examples. He has demonstrated a more varied 3pnt arsenal including hitting some shots coming off screens or on step backs in Iso situations (the wizards OT shot for example). He's done a much better job finding guys for kick outs on drives or dump offs when he gets penetration. And then as Lowe as pointed out he's shown at least some promise in pick and roll. Obviously he's still raw with a lot of these skills, but the fact that he's showing them more means he's developing them. You can begin to see a path on how he could reach all star level offensive output if he continues to make gains in  these areas.

Yeah, for all the criticism his handle gets, I think it's actually pretty strong. His problem is reading defenses. He often dribbles into traffic or he'll spin right into a defenders chest instead of around them. Things like that. That's not a problem with his ball control, it's his decision making.

This is a good point; if he were able to pick his spots more effectively I think he would improve his efficiency at getting to the rim. Once he's at the rim, he's a difficult guard and can challenge most NBA bigs with his explosiveness and power.

I think his dribbling has improved from last year, but where I think he struggles is in traffic; he tends to keep the ball too high while maintaining his dribble, and then brings it too low when taking his two steps. I do not have the statistics for how many times he has had the ball swiped at during his gather-and-jump, but I imagine it's high. If he improved his ability to control the ball within a congested space, he'd again improve his efficiency at getting to the rim.

And all of these areas of improvement come with time. As Celtics fans, I think we're lucky to have a prospect who already has other parts of the game figured out (e.g., individual defense, rebounding, post-scoring) and athleticism that cannot be taught; the small stuff is easy to pick up given the amount of game he already has.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2018, 09:00:53 AM »

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Jaylen Brown has impressed me the most in the last month or so. I wasn't sure if he'd ever be a high IQ player (even though he's a high IQ off the court). But he's doing a lot of little things lately that show the game is slowing down for him. I never would have thought he'd have much potential as a playmaker, but there are signs of that potential now. He needs to keep improving, but the improvement he's shown so far is a good sign.

I think Ainge and/or Stevens called Brown more of an athlete than a basketball player when he was drafted. He's looking more and more like a basketball player these days.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2018, 11:07:44 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
The question is, how much money will a 23/24 year old brown command, will he be worth it, and will the Celtics be able to afford it?

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2018, 11:12:37 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
The question is, how much money will a 23/24 year old brown command, will he be worth it, and will the Celtics be able to afford it?
Unless he completely stagnates over the next 2 years, which given his growth from season 1 to season 2 isn't likely, he will get the max contract for a player coming off their rookie contract. That's the same year Horford comes off the books so we will see if we can afford both.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2018, 12:30:52 PM »

Offline footey

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Jaylen has two problems:

1. Zero confidence at foul line. It is hurting his game a lot.
2. Inconsistent asserting himself. He should be attacking the hoop far more frequently.

The two are not unrelated.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2018, 12:40:49 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
The question is, how much money will a 23/24 year old brown command, will he be worth it, and will the Celtics be able to afford it?
Unless he completely stagnates over the next 2 years, which given his growth from season 1 to season 2 isn't likely, he will get the max contract for a player coming off their rookie contract. That's the same year Horford comes off the books so we will see if we can afford both.
Brown is going to have to improve a lot to be worth 25M+.  Irving and Hayward will be making 30M+ each.  Tatum will hopefully need to get paid Max the following season. 

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2018, 12:57:16 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Pretty big tangent here, but Jeff Green is actually having pretty nice year in Cleveland. That career 32% from three just kills him though.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago in another thread, but IMO he looks 'roided up.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2018, 01:50:44 PM »

Online keevsnick

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It occurs to me that Jaylen is a little bit like a 6'7" Avery Bradley right now. Shoots high 30s from outside. Defends. 15 points per night. Better rebounder, more versatile, but lower defensive ceiling (i.e. Bradley was elite in certain matchups). Puts in the work.

If 21 year-old Brown is a step ahead of 23/24 year-old Bradley and follows a similar path of improvement the next 3-5 years, that's an All-Star.
The question is, how much money will a 23/24 year old brown command, will he be worth it, and will the Celtics be able to afford it?
Unless he completely stagnates over the next 2 years, which given his growth from season 1 to season 2 isn't likely, he will get the max contract for a player coming off their rookie contract. That's the same year Horford comes off the books so we will see if we can afford both.
Brown is going to have to improve a lot to be worth 25M+.  Irving and Hayward will be making 30M+ each.  Tatum will hopefully need to get paid Max the following season.

Ya, the Celtics cap sheet going forward is very complicated just in terms of who and how much you pay. What it really comes down to is how much Brown/tatu improve. If Brown is almost as good as Hayward or trending that direction then you let Hayward go and pay Brown. Or maybe Brown or Tatum stagnates. Or maybe Hayward takes a step back after his injury. Or 1000 other things. Its too early to wrry about how much we have too pay Brown or Ttaum because we have no idea what they will be next year or the year after.