Author Topic: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense  (Read 15133 times)

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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2018, 09:24:23 PM »

Online Atzar

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Jeff Green has become a lazy downside comparison for every athletic forward.  They don't really play all that similarly. 

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2018, 09:25:40 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Like Zach Lowe. But don’t like his take here. Brown is a disappearing act with the occasional good game thrown in. We need better than Jeff Green 2.0
Thats not what I see at all.

Yeah, I see ups and downs typical of a sophomore, but not an ounce of Sleepy Jeff Green.

Hmm.. wasn’t trying to say Jaylen’s inconsistency is atypical. Rather, that he is an inconsistent player—regardless of his year(s) in the NBA. It’s tough to get extremely excited about Brown when he disappears so often.

The first player that came to mind who typified inconsistency and a 15PPG contribution was Green. I could have chosen a less polarizing comparison, but my point would have remained: Its tough to be excited about a player who is all over the map like Jaylen Brown is.

Jaylen Brown in his short time in the league has dunked on Lebron, clapped in Curry's face, destroyed Porzingus, flexed on Cousins, blown kisses at 76ers and earned the Warriors respect. He has alot of heart, a fire Jeff Green didn't really have. In terms of player type they have little in common besides a J first name and a color last name. The big knock on Jeff was he settled for too many jumpers, Jaylen is at times too agressive. Jaylen is already better at 21 then Jeff Green was. Keep in mind that the Jeff Green you saw in Boston was mid twenties. Jaylen is 21, he's gonna be inconsistent. That's part of beibg young. Comparing their consistency at different ages makes no sense. Part of his inconsistency is the simple fact he doesn't have the skills to put up 20 eveynight, but as Lowe points out he may be getting there. If people aren't high on Jaylen fine, at least use a player comparison that makes even a little bit of sense. The Jeff Green one is lazy.
Let's not call into question others BBIQ. That's disrespectful and against site rules

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 10:20:47 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 10:33:04 PM by Jiri Welsch »

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 10:56:09 PM »

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

Why does it matter at this stage of his career that he's inconsistent? A lot of good players were inconsistent at the beginning.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 11:13:00 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

Why does it matter at this stage of his career that he's inconsistent? A lot of good players were inconsistent at the beginning.

I think it’s worth noting—and in the case of this thread I appear to be harping on!—because some players remain inconsistent. I guess that’s my worry. And it’s why I brought up that lazy, ignorant, obviously-meant-to-be-all-encompassing comparison to Jeff Green. Because I think there remains a chance that Brown won’t channel his ability into being a consistent performer on a contending team.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2018, 11:14:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.
Jaylen has scored in double digits 39 games this season. He's had 5 or more rebounds 30 times this season. His defense, except recently, has been stellar for a 21 year old. That's not perfect consistency but for a 21 year old looked to be the 2nd offensive option on a top 6 team in the league, that's tremendous.

As for his disappearing during games, blame Stevens. For whole quarters and halves at a time Stevens has him sitting in the corner waiting for a kickout corner three while Kyrie and Horford play two man, PnR ball. Stevens hasn't made an effort to make either Tatum or Brown tremendously integral parts of the offense yet. He probably, rightly so, doesn't think they are ready for it. You can't complain about their scoring consistency if their coach isn't consistently calling their number.

Sure, Jaylen is inconsistent, but as I mentioned earlier, for a 21 year old, on a team expected to go deep in the playoffs, and be a 2nd scoring option, he's dang good and more consistent than you are giving him credit for.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2018, 11:17:49 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.
Jaylen has scored in double digits 39 games this season. He's had 5 or more rebounds 30 times this season. His defense, except recently, has been stellar for a 21 year old. That's not perfect consistency but for a 21 year old looked to be the 2nd offensive option on a top 6 team in the league, that's tremendous.

As for his disappearing during games, blame Stevens. For whole quarters and halves at a time Stevens has him sitting in the corner waiting for a kickout corner three while Kyrie and Horford play two man, PnR ball. Stevens hasn't made an effort to make either Tatum or Brown tremendously integral parts of the offense yet. He probably, rightly so, doesn't think they are ready for it. You can't complain about their scoring consistency if their coach isn't consistently calling their number.

Sure, Jaylen is inconsistent, but as I mentioned earlier, for a 21 year old, on a team expected to go deep in the playoffs, and be a 2nd scoring option, he's dang good and more consistent than you are giving him credit for.

That’s a fair critique of Stevens. And I wonder if part of that decision-making (re: camping out in the corner) is due to lack of confidence in Brown or just a legitimate shortcoming on the coach’s part?

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2018, 11:22:26 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Getting back to what Lowe said, Brown has been pretty impressive this season given that he's played a much bigger role than he was expected to coming into the season.

He has been inconsistent, but growing pains are part of the process in the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Brown shows more improvement after the all-star break.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 01:36:14 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Like Zach Lowe. But don’t like his take here. Brown is a disappearing act with the occasional good game thrown in. We need better than Jeff Green 2.0
Thats not what I see at all.

Yeah, I see ups and downs typical of a sophomore, but not an ounce of Sleepy Jeff Green.

Hmm.. wasn’t trying to say Jaylen’s inconsistency is atypical. Rather, that he is an inconsistent player—regardless of his year(s) in the NBA. It’s tough to get extremely excited about Brown when he disappears so often.

The first player that came to mind who typified inconsistency and a 15PPG contribution was Green. I could have chosen a less polarizing comparison, but my point would have remained: Its tough to be excited about a player who is all over the map like Jaylen Brown is.

Jaylen Brown in his short time in the league has dunked on Lebron, clapped in Curry's face, destroyed Porzingus, flexed on Cousins, blown kisses at 76ers and earned the Warriors respect. He has alot of heart, a fire Jeff Green didn't really have. In terms of player type they have little in common besides a J first name and a color last name. The big knock on Jeff was he settled for too many jumpers, Jaylen is at times too agressive. Jaylen is already better at 21 then Jeff Green was. Keep in mind that the Jeff Green you saw in Boston was mid twenties. Jaylen is 21, he's gonna be inconsistent. That's part of beibg young. Comparing their consistency at different ages makes no sense. Part of his inconsistency is the simple fact he doesn't have the skills to put up 20 eveynight, but as Lowe points out he may be getting there. If people aren't high on Jaylen fine, at least use a player comparison that makes even a little bit of sense. The Jeff Green one is lazy.
Let's not call into question others BBIQ. That's disrespectful and against site rules

My bad.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 02:12:02 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

Why does it matter at this stage of his career that he's inconsistent? A lot of good players were inconsistent at the beginning.

I think it’s worth noting—and in the case of this thread I appear to be harping on!—because some players remain inconsistent. I guess that’s my worry. And it’s why I brought up that lazy, ignorant, obviously-meant-to-be-all-encompassing comparison to Jeff Green. Because I think there remains a chance that Brown won’t channel his ability into being a consistent performer on a contending team.

Sure, most young players are inconsistent. And some stay that way. But we have no reason to believe Jaylen will, most grow out of it with experience and that's especially so for those that show the improvement Jaylen already has early on. What it really comes down to is Jaylen literally can't be Jeff Green right now, because even Jeff Green took five years of being less than he could be before we declared him a dispaointing NBA player.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2018, 05:03:18 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Like Zach Lowe. But don’t like his take here. Brown is a disappearing act with the occasional good game thrown in. We need better than Jeff Green 2.0
Thats not what I see at all.

Yeah, I see ups and downs typical of a sophomore, but not an ounce of Sleepy Jeff Green.

Hmm.. wasn’t trying to say Jaylen’s inconsistency is atypical. Rather, that he is an inconsistent player—regardless of his year(s) in the NBA. It’s tough to get extremely excited about Brown when he disappears so often.

The first player that came to mind who typified inconsistency and a 15PPG contribution was Green. I could have chosen a less polarizing comparison, but my point would have remained: Its tough to be excited about a player who is all over the map like Jaylen Brown is.

Jaylen Brown in his short time in the league has dunked on Lebron, clapped in Curry's face, destroyed Porzingus, flexed on Cousins, blown kisses at 76ers and earned the Warriors respect. He has alot of heart, a fire Jeff Green didn't really have. In terms of player type they have little in common besides a J first name and a color last name. The big knock on Jeff was he settled for too many jumpers, Jaylen is at times too agressive. Jaylen is already better at 21 then Jeff Green was. Keep in mind that the Jeff Green you saw in Boston was mid twenties. Jaylen is 21, he's gonna be inconsistent. That's part of beibg young. Comparing their consistency at different ages makes no sense. Part of his inconsistency is the simple fact he doesn't have the skills to put up 20 eveynight, but as Lowe points out he may be getting there. If people aren't high on Jaylen fine, at least use a player comparison that makes even a little bit of sense. The Jeff Green one is lazy.
Let's not call into question others BBIQ. That's disrespectful and against site rules

There are much more egregious offenses left and right on here than calling a comparison lazy. C’mon man!

Speaking of which, I go on other various forums and this one is by far the best run one. Moderators are great and the posters generally don’t get into verbal wars or extreme trolling. This is a good community. I have enjoyed being able to disagree civilly with many different posters and never once did I feel offended. Debates are fun on here. Keep up the good work, CB!
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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2018, 07:34:26 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Quote
Psst: Boston ranks 28th in points per possession since Jan. 1. They are 29th in the league during that stretch in shot attempts within the restricted area, and dead stinking last in field-goal percentage there, per Cleaning The Glass. Only Sacramento has generated fewer free throws per shot attempt.
This is the important nugget.  Not going to have a good, consistent offensive when we're just settling for jumpers.

Or, you can settle for jumpers when you have players who can actually make jump shots.  Which the Celtics do not have.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 09:13:46 AM »

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

Why does it matter at this stage of his career that he's inconsistent? A lot of good players were inconsistent at the beginning.

I think it’s worth noting—and in the case of this thread I appear to be harping on!—because some players remain inconsistent. I guess that’s my worry. And it’s why I brought up that lazy, ignorant, obviously-meant-to-be-all-encompassing comparison to Jeff Green. Because I think there remains a chance that Brown won’t channel his ability into being a consistent performer on a contending team.

Well said. You’ve made great points. It seems like everyone on here gets upset if you tell them their toy isn’t the coolest. It’s ok to critique players who are still developing without it being an outright slam of their potential and value. Brown is getting better every day but the areas where we want to see the most improvement are sometimes a little slower to evolve.

Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 09:16:21 AM »

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Love that folks are getting stuck on the throwaway comparison and less on the “he’s inconsistent” point. I also am aware that Jaylen is 21 and will likely improve.

Typically around 3000 minutes in the NBA you see a spike in a player’s development. In Brown’s case, I guess I was hoping some of that development would include not disappearing during games.

Why does it matter at this stage of his career that he's inconsistent? A lot of good players were inconsistent at the beginning.

I think it’s worth noting—and in the case of this thread I appear to be harping on!—because some players remain inconsistent. I guess that’s my worry. And it’s why I brought up that lazy, ignorant, obviously-meant-to-be-all-encompassing comparison to Jeff Green. Because I think there remains a chance that Brown won’t channel his ability into being a consistent performer on a contending team.

Well said. You’ve made great points. It seems like everyone on here gets upset if you tell them their toy isn’t the coolest. It’s ok to critique players who are still developing without it being an outright slam of their potential and value. Brown is getting better every day but the areas where we want to see the most improvement are sometimes a little slower to evolve.

What aspect of Brown’s development has not met your expectations coming into this year?


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Re: Zach Lowe on Jaylen Brown and the Celtic's Offense
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 09:53:23 AM »

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I read in a number of comments that the Celtics don’t have any three-point shooters, or that we just are missing them. On the year, the Celtics are making 37% of their three-point shots, good for seventh best in the league. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct.

If we want to look for a problem, maybe we should look at their two-point shooting percentage, which is 25th in the league. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/two-point-pct

I think I know where the criticism of the long distance shooting comes from; there are some games where they go dry from three for a quarter or two, and they are not able to switch it up and go to the rim hard. I know that’s when I start shouting at my tv. But  maybe if they tried that the results would be even worse. Hopefully this is something a dose of Gordon Hayward and  development of the younger players will cure.