Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 21653 times)

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #285 on: February 22, 2018, 08:51:30 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #286 on: February 22, 2018, 09:55:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.
Bingo. Lots of my family are in law enforcement and they all say the same thing. Take away their guns and they all know people who could never do their jobs.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #287 on: February 22, 2018, 10:07:28 PM »

Online chicagoceltic

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I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.

You mean the complete CNN set up?  While I prefer kids with a logical opinion to speak up using stats, facts, and logic over silent, angry types what the Town Hall was was nothing more than Liberal democrats using these teenagers to push their anti-2nd amendment agenda's.
Or maybe it was the up and coming voters speaking from their hearts and minds.
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #288 on: February 22, 2018, 10:43:01 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.

You mean the complete CNN set up?  While I prefer kids with a logical opinion to speak up using stats, facts, and logic over silent, angry types what the Town Hall was was nothing more than Liberal democrats using these teenagers to push their anti-2nd amendment agenda's.

That town hall had nothing to do with liberal democratics, it was people who had just been part of a terrible nightmare demanding that their government representatives do something aboout it. If there was anger it was justfied. Please don't try to undermine the legitmate feelings of a group of people by inffering they are merely the puppets of an outsdie group attempting to use them for political game. That's fox news' job.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #289 on: February 22, 2018, 10:52:49 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.

You mean the complete CNN set up?  While I prefer kids with a logical opinion to speak up using stats, facts, and logic over silent, angry types what the Town Hall was was nothing more than Liberal democrats using these teenagers to push their anti-2nd amendment agenda's.

That town hall had nothing to do with liberal democratics, it was people who had just been part of a terrible nightmare demanding that their government representatives do something aboout it. If there was anger it was justfied. Please don't try to undermine the legitmate feelings of a group of people by inffering they are merely the puppets of an outsdie group attempting to use them for political game. That's Fox News ' job.

I think what he’s referring to is a report from one of the survivors that CNN censored him / required him to ask scripted questions. CNN has denied the report.


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #290 on: February 23, 2018, 07:00:13 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.

This is even true of some soldiers and 100% true.  It's a rare person that charges towards the danger when one's life in danger.   Some guys can't do it with all their training.   Folks like School resource officer Scot Peterson should be working at desk and not on the front lines.

When I heard Scot Peterson, I thought of Scott  Peterson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson


Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #291 on: February 23, 2018, 07:35:47 AM »

Offline CelticD

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.

This. Anyone can use a gun to defend themselves, but asking people to deliberately run into harm's way to stop a mass shooter is something completely different, especially when they themselves are in a safe place.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #292 on: February 23, 2018, 07:35:54 AM »

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.
Bingo. Lots of my family are in law enforcement and they all say the same thing. Take away their guns and they all know people who could never do their jobs.

Fight or flight is a real thing though. It's one thing to lack fortitude generally, and another when facing assault weapons. We had a dude crouched in he fetal position in a corner in Mogadishu. A trained soldier. Commo.guy, but still. The security guy may well have looked at his .38 and thought about his own kids, and waited for backup. Everyone thinks they'll be John Wayne or John Rambo.  Nobody wants to think they'd be Don Knotts in The Shakiest Gun in the West.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #293 on: February 23, 2018, 07:46:54 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.
Bingo. Lots of my family are in law enforcement and they all say the same thing. Take away their guns and they all know people who could never do their jobs.

Fight or flight is a real thing though. It's one thing to lack fortitude generally, and another when facing assault weapons. We had a dude crouched in he fetal position in a corner in Mogadishu. A trained soldier. Commo.guy, but still. The security guy may well have looked at his .38 and thought about his own kids, and waited for backup. Everyone thinks they'll be John Wayne or John Rambo.  Nobody wants to think they'd be Don Knotts in The Shakiest Gun in the West.

It’s interesting to get the perspective of law enforcement and military on this stuff. Like nick, I know a lot of LEOs, and saw this discussion linked on one of their pages:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2075758609313019&id=1413185958903624

(Warning for language).

There are a mix of reactions, from empathy to vitriolic contempt. Most fall in the second category.


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #294 on: February 23, 2018, 09:11:55 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.

The problem is that many people with guns — even some in law enforcement— are cowards, and they use their guns to compensate.
Bingo. Lots of my family are in law enforcement and they all say the same thing. Take away their guns and they all know people who could never do their jobs.

Fight or flight is a real thing though. It's one thing to lack fortitude generally, and another when facing assault weapons. We had a dude crouched in he fetal position in a corner in Mogadishu. A trained soldier. Commo.guy, but still. The security guy may well have looked at his .38 and thought about his own kids, and waited for backup. Everyone thinks they'll be John Wayne or John Rambo.  Nobody wants to think they'd be Don Knotts in The Shakiest Gun in the West.

It’s interesting to get the perspective of law enforcement and military on this stuff. Like nick, I know a lot of LEOs, and saw this discussion linked on one of their pages:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2075758609313019&id=1413185958903624

(Warning for language).

There are a mix of reactions, from empathy to vitriolic contempt. Most fall in the second category.

Oh yeah. Let me just say that I understand the guy doing what he did. It would appear from his immediate retirement he was at the end of the trail, but a sharp, trained individual should experience the training kick in, which didn't happen in this case. The guy was likely retired on the job. That itself worthy of contempt in my view because it can lead to things like this. Someone else should've been in that spot. That's as much empathy as I can muster for that piece of ****.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #295 on: February 23, 2018, 10:28:01 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I know this may be a technicality, but where in the second amendment does it say that citizens have a right to ammunition?

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #296 on: February 23, 2018, 10:45:31 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I know this may be a technicality, but where in the second amendment does it say that citizens have a right to ammunition?

Generally, courts will give Constitutional protection to things that are in necessary furtherance of a Constitutional right.

But, my guess is that the 1780s definition of arms included bullets. Some definitions in that time period even included defensive armor.


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #297 on: February 23, 2018, 11:03:03 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I know this may be a technicality, but where in the second amendment does it say that citizens have a right to ammunition?

Generally, courts will give Constitutional protection to things that are in necessary furtherance of a Constitutional right.

But, my guess is that the 1780s definition of arms included bullets. Some definitions in that time period even included defensive armor.
Well, I have no problem with the public having the right to own unlimited amounts of 1780s style arms and armor.  8)
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #298 on: February 23, 2018, 11:12:12 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I know this may be a technicality, but where in the second amendment does it say that citizens have a right to ammunition?

Generally, courts will give Constitutional protection to things that are in necessary furtherance of a Constitutional right.

But, my guess is that the 1780s definition of arms included bullets. Some definitions in that time period even included defensive armor.
Well, I have no problem with the public having the right to own unlimited amounts of 1780s style arms and armor.  8)

Little known fact: there were repeating firearms in the 1700s that could fire 20+ times without reloading.

There’s one thing about humanity: our inventiveness in coming up with new technology to kill each other is boundless.



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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #299 on: February 23, 2018, 11:49:00 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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I know this may be a technicality, but where in the second amendment does it say that citizens have a right to ammunition?

Generally, courts will give Constitutional protection to things that are in necessary furtherance of a Constitutional right.

But, my guess is that the 1780s definition of arms included bullets. Some definitions in that time period even included defensive armor.
Well, I have no problem with the public having the right to own unlimited amounts of 1780s style arms and armor.  8)

Little known fact: there were repeating firearms in the 1700s that could fire 20+ times without reloading.

There’s one thing about humanity: our inventiveness in coming up with new technology to kill each other is boundless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFuA50H9uek&app=desktop