Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 21603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #270 on: February 22, 2018, 04:54:49 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3769
  • Tommy Points: 250
Yeah I wonder about mandatory liability insurance. Probably no way to work that out. Like for a car. That doesn't really work either.


Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #271 on: February 22, 2018, 05:14:17 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35915
  • Tommy Points: -27668
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I just read that some nutjob drove his car into a hospital ER in CT and proceeded to light himself on fire.  The solution is obvious, BAN ALL CARS!!  This would have never happened had he not been given access to a car like that.  If he didn't have a car, he would clearly have been of sound mind and body and thought twice about committing this disgusting act.
Cars are necessary in society as a means to transport and travel. They are not usually used as killing weapons. A guns sole purpose is to kill. Weather its animals or humans that is the function of it as a tool. Just makes complete sense, and stats back it up, that if you get rid of tools that kill, there will be less killing done.

True, cars are needed as transport.  But they're also used as tools for killing.  (See Charlotesville).  My point was if some sick POS wants to do damage to an individual or a large group of people they will find a way. You can scream "BAN GUNS" all you want but the people who were going to shoot you will now just find other means to get you. 


How exactly? Drive a car into a building? Knife? Sword? Crossbow? Bow and arrow? You can't see how much more difficult it would be to kill 20-50 people that way?

Yeah, any society would be safer with zero guns.

I’m sympathetic to the argument that if you took all the guns from law-abiding people, many criminals would still find them, but that’s different than the “killers find a way” argument. Without guns, that killing is harder and less efficient.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2018, 05:48:22 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18688
  • Tommy Points: 2077
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #273 on: February 22, 2018, 05:52:01 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24166
  • Tommy Points: 1075
  • What a Pub Should Be
Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

You mean not everyone will turn into John McClane in this situation and save the day?

You don't say.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #274 on: February 22, 2018, 06:24:16 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18688
  • Tommy Points: 2077
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
True, cars are needed as transport.  But they're also used as tools for killing.  (See Charlotesville).  My point was if some sick POS wants to do damage to an individual or a large group of people they will find a way.  You can scream "BAN GUNS" all you want but the people who were going to shoot you will now just find other means to get you. 

This isn't a point, it's a rationalization. Mass murder is not inevitable and the number of victims of a mass murderer is not set in stone. Spree killers are not MacGyvers of death, their success and often willingness to even try is directly related to how much lethal force they can easily get their hands on and use. 

I don't know any other topic where not being able to eliminate risk is confused with not being able to reduce it, but it sure gets leaned on a lot to defend easy access to highly lethal guns.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:34:17 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #275 on: February 22, 2018, 06:38:45 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35915
  • Tommy Points: -27668
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
Mass murder is not inevitable ...

Sadly, I disagree with this. That said, I do think we as a society have to find ways to reduce the frequency of these attacks  and to limit the casualties.  We need to make it as hard on mass murderers as possible.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #276 on: February 22, 2018, 06:44:31 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35915
  • Tommy Points: -27668
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
On the “enforcement of existing laws”, yesterday I saw our prosecutors arraign two people for “possession of a firearm by a prohibited person”, meaning in this case a person possessing a firearm contrary to Federal law.

Their punishment can be up to 364 days for this specific crime. Their punishment? $250 fine, plus $70 in surcharges.  That’s a real deterrent, huh?


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #277 on: February 22, 2018, 06:48:13 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18688
  • Tommy Points: 2077
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Quote
Mass murder is not inevitable ...

Sadly, I disagree with this. That said, I do think we as a society have to find ways to reduce the frequency of these attacks  and to limit the casualties.  We need to make it as hard on mass murderers as possible.

Mass murder overall is unavoidable barring some horrible police state, but I mean individual cases, which is what I think you mean too.

I have personal experience with a guy who wanted to commit mass murder at my university and failed miserably because he couldn't get a gun and tried to run people over instead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/us/defendant-offers-details-of-jeep-attack-at-university.html

It almost certainly goes from attempted to actual mass murder if he's firing semiautomatic weapons into the same crowd.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #278 on: February 22, 2018, 06:59:51 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 641
  • Tommy Points: 136
A friend of mine recently returned from his first trip overseas visiting his girlfriend’s family.  When I asked what the highlight of his trip was a he told me it was a visit to a gun store with a range where you can fire a number of guns.  You pay per bullet.  Apparently the average customer fires a few bullets from a handful of guns and spends about the equivalent of $5-$10 American.  My buddy said he fired a full clip from just about every gun that they had and spent $285.  His very favorite part was firing a “street sweeper” where he wiped out all of the paper targets.  The people at the store had never seen anything like it.  Again, it was not the historical sites, different foods or culture that he liked, it was shooting a crap ton of guns.

To me that pretty much is the perfect example of the American gun culture.  To the Europeans guns are a tool, to many Americans they are a toy.  People say we have a violence problem and not a gun problem.  I say our gun culture is impacting our violence problem as it is awful hard to get people to even consider any sort of gun control.
Pub Draft

Sam N Ella's

At the Bar: The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the Door:  Hugh Hefner
On Stage:  O.A.R., Louis C.K., EDGAR! Special Drinks:  Irish Car Bomb, Martinis On Tap: Lite, Beamish, 3 Floyds Seasonal, Chimay Grand Reserve, Spotted Cow

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #279 on: February 22, 2018, 07:05:45 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 641
  • Tommy Points: 136
On the “enforcement of existing laws”, yesterday I saw our prosecutors arraign two people for “possession of a firearm by a prohibited person”, meaning in this case a person possessing a firearm contrary to Federal law.

Their punishment can be up to 364 days for this specific crime. Their punishment? $250 fine, plus $70 in surcharges.  That’s a real deterrent, huh?
I think we need to put severe punishment on any crime that involves a gun.  Put some real teeth into punishment and make it a real deterrent. 
Pub Draft

Sam N Ella's

At the Bar: The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the Door:  Hugh Hefner
On Stage:  O.A.R., Louis C.K., EDGAR! Special Drinks:  Irish Car Bomb, Martinis On Tap: Lite, Beamish, 3 Floyds Seasonal, Chimay Grand Reserve, Spotted Cow

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #280 on: February 22, 2018, 07:14:43 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 916
  • Tommy Points: 80
I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #281 on: February 22, 2018, 07:36:33 PM »

Online nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33446
  • Tommy Points: 5509
I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.
I was waiting for the kid onstage asking about NRA contributions to say: "Well maybe you need to be replaced"!

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #282 on: February 22, 2018, 08:00:34 PM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 630
  • Tommy Points: 32
I just got a chance to watch some footage from the Town Hall CNN hosted with the Florida Shooting Victims and others and I really just can't overstate how impressive I find these kids who are out there fighting for tougher gun control measures. When i was in High School I barely had the courage to raise my hand in class, let alone take on US senators. For all the talk I hear about how young people are ruining this country stuff like this does give me some hope.

You mean the complete CNN set up?  While I prefer kids with a logical opinion to speak up using stats, facts, and logic over silent, angry types what the Town Hall was was nothing more than Liberal democrats using these teenagers to push their anti-2nd amendment agenda's.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #283 on: February 22, 2018, 08:09:00 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41769
  • Tommy Points: 2429
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #284 on: February 22, 2018, 08:33:50 PM »

Offline heyvik

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1266
  • Tommy Points: 46
Don't know if anyone has posted this but it turns out the armed security officer in Parkland responded to the shooting but stayed in the parking lot, refusing to go into the building with the shooter while students and teachers were killed.

He's resigned and retired. As much as he deserves it, castigating the guy in a post he'll never see feels pretty hollow, so I'll just say this is an example of yet another point of failure in the "guns vs guns" approach. Trained or not, you can't reliably know how someone will react in this kind of situation until they're in it, and a substantial percentage will either panic or freeze.

Holy crap. I'm not even mad I'm more just sad.

as much as I hate to write it.....does this now blow a hole in the "good guy" with a gun arguement? You had a resource officer who was armed but did not engage.....Where are the proponents for more guns now??

and Dems DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY....STOP WITH THE SAME ANTI-2ND Amendment crap. There should be a ban on citizens owning assault rifles.