Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 19091 times)

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #195 on: February 20, 2018, 05:04:25 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Trump pushes for ban on gun 'bump stocks'
Good.  That is a step in the right direction but it should have happened after Las Vegas. 
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #196 on: February 20, 2018, 05:19:43 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Trump pushes for ban on gun 'bump stocks'

Sensible as a small measure, but much too little.

Seriously

But if it quiets down, he will minimize damage for NRA

I dont think this will....

NRA does not want AR15 or any other guns banned. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:42:39 AM by triboy16f »

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #197 on: February 20, 2018, 05:28:54 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Also, as Roy stated, who determined which psychiatric diseases disqualifies someone from ownership. There's a lot of mental illnesses and even with the same diagnosis there are varying degrees.

Yeah, my wife is a psychiatric clinician, and I asked her which diagnoses she would absolutely restrict guns from. The only two she would unequivocally bar were Antisocial personality disorder and schizophrenia.  Others were case by case.

I wonder how frequently anti-social personality disorder (basically, I think, who they used to refer to as sociopaths) is actually diagnosed in advance of criminal adjudication.  Please ask your wife if it even is allowable to diagnose antisocial PD prior to age 18.  I think it used to be that personality disorders were never formally diagnosed unless over 18.   I think many youth with Conduct Disorder become skilled avoiders of mental health treatment when adults - my guess is that it is only by being caught in criminal activity that folks with this diagnostic picture would engage in some (forced)  mental health treatment. 

Also please ask her what she thinks about teens with post-traumatic stress, attachment related disorder, and comorbid substance misuse (prescribed or not) with access to guns.  I still think even with these multiple risk indicators that the predictability of  mass murderers is something of a crap shoot.  But I am sure there are commonalities among those who plan and implement these types of killing sprees.  I don't think the MH world has figured out effective treatments to addresss these complex (and typically help-resistant) cases.


Edit:  As I re-read my post, I wonder if I came across as challenging to you or your wife about this.  If so, it was not intended at all. I meant to convey only curiosity.  I think there is so much to learn about MH issues and the confluence  of circumstances and diagnostics that create the profile most risky for gun ownership.  I was hoping for more info and more opinions from those who are working every day in the MH field.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:44:41 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #198 on: February 20, 2018, 09:39:06 PM »

Offline Cman

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Trump pushes for ban on gun 'bump stocks'

Great! A small step, but in the right direction.
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #199 on: February 21, 2018, 07:14:02 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #200 on: February 21, 2018, 07:51:24 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I wonder how frequently anti-social personality disorder (basically, I think, who they used to refer to as sociopaths) is actually diagnosed in advance of criminal adjudication.

Personality disorders are usually harder to diagnose.   Anti-socials tends to be charming and sometimes are intelligent enough to hide it. 

Quote
People with ASPD usually disregard the law and the rights of others, and are skillful manipulators. They're also more prone to substance abuse. The disorder is more common among men than women. About 3 percent of men and 1 percent of women have ASPD

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #201 on: February 21, 2018, 08:12:19 AM »

Offline Androslav

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We, Europeans (living on the arguably bloodiest continent ever) and Americans share so many cultural values that it makes us easily relatable toward each other. I really enjoy that connectivity. Heck, NBA basketball (the best thing ever) is one of those.
However, I often feel we can't be further away culturally regarding the use and possession of firearms. To me, it is clear as a day that more guns bring more gun-related deaths/crimes/abuse. It is not a singular reason for it surely, but it multiplies the negative factors. I was a kid that grew up in the war-affected country, the guns were pretty available after the initial scarcity. They were even more available after the war, logical as there was less use and need for it. Big, small, any...you could get it somehow, but I wanted to get away from it. My father, a war veteran too. He kept some for a year, but went to the police one day and returned all of it.
I know how to shot the pistol, automatic guns like uzi, rifle if the situation calls for it (hopefully not), but possessing one is like steering your karma to its use and inviting trouble IMO.

I also hope that American youth isn't so competitive toward each other in the future as it is also clear that these are "peer crimes".
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #202 on: February 21, 2018, 10:13:19 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Conspiracy nuts and bots throwing their usual madness at FLA victims.

Yep.  And that insanity is being fueled and amplified by, yes, Russian troll-bots eager to inflame divisiveness, posting crap on both sides of the issue.

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #203 on: February 21, 2018, 11:41:21 AM »

Online nickagneta

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Conspiracy nuts and bots throwing their usual madness at FLA victims.
Truly sad what some of the far right wing crazies are spouting off. They'll say and make up whatever they can to protect guns.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #204 on: February 21, 2018, 11:44:47 AM »

Offline seancally

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We, Europeans (living on the arguably bloodiest continent ever) and Americans share so many cultural values that it makes us easily relatable toward each other. I really enjoy that connectivity. Heck, NBA basketball (the best thing ever) is one of those.
However, I often feel we can't be further away culturally regarding the use and possession of firearms. To me, it is clear as a day that more guns bring more gun-related deaths/crimes/abuse. It is not a singular reason for it surely, but it multiplies the negative factors. I was a kid that grew up in the war-affected country, the guns were pretty available after the initial scarcity. They were even more available after the war, logical as there was less use and need for it. Big, small, any...you could get it somehow, but I wanted to get away from it. My father, a war veteran too. He kept some for a year, but went to the police one day and returned all of it.
I know how to shot the pistol, automatic guns like uzi, rifle if the situation calls for it (hopefully not), but possessing one is like steering your karma to its use and inviting trouble IMO.

I also hope that American youth isn't so competitive toward each other in the future as it is also clear that these are "peer crimes".

Thanks for sharing. My wife is from Bosnia and shares a similar viewpoint.
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #205 on: February 21, 2018, 11:56:01 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Conspiracy nuts and bots throwing their usual madness at FLA victims.
Truly sad what some of the far right wing crazies are spouting off. They'll say and make up whatever they can to protect guns.

It's the same motivation as climate change denial - don't need to have a solution if you refuse to acknowledge a problem.  It's just that there's much more immediate evidence to reject here.  Many pick the softer version of declaring the body count inevitable instead.

What's disturbing is like other conspiratorial ideas it keeps penetrating closer to mainstream right-wing rhetoric. Seems like an inevitable consequence of rejecting outside authority and sources of evidence.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #206 on: February 21, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't see this elsewhere in the thread, and I've been meaning to post it since last week, but:

Quote
Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter. This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign - there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!

Just want to again point out that the actual President of the United States said this after the worst high school shooting I can remember.

I remember seeing this last week and basically trying not to vomit. I cannot believe so many people are still okay with Trump saying stuff like this.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #207 on: February 21, 2018, 12:48:36 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I don't see this elsewhere in the thread, and I've been meaning to post it since last week, but:

Quote
Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter. This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign - there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!

Just want to again point out that the actual President of the United States said this after the worst high school shooting I can remember.

I remember seeing this last week and basically trying not to vomit. I cannot believe so many people are still okay with Trump saying stuff like this.


Mind you all the follow up comments about investigating Obama instead really sells his point well.

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #208 on: February 21, 2018, 01:22:40 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Watching these kids speak out just absolutely rips the heart from your chest. It is heart breaking.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #209 on: February 21, 2018, 01:27:43 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't see this elsewhere in the thread, and I've been meaning to post it since last week, but:

Quote
Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter. This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign - there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!

Just want to again point out that the actual President of the United States said this after the worst high school shooting I can remember.

I remember seeing this last week and basically trying not to vomit. I cannot believe so many people are still okay with Trump saying stuff like this.


Mind you all the follow up comments about investigating Obama instead really sells his point well.

It is insane how obvious his first instinct is to say, "But what about ME!", and people are all so cool with that.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner