Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 19926 times)

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 04:22:03 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.
trump's a liberal nut job who wants to take away my guns!
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 05:06:52 PM »

Offline liam

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

Source?

Is the source Trump? Then did he say the opposite the next day?

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 05:16:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What I can't understand if someone from another country were to target 17-50 Americans overseas and kill them once a month, this country would be at war with that country or group.

But Americans can mass murder Americans and, sorry, we just have to take it....2nd Amendment. I agree with everything fwf wrote above.

If I had my druthers I would repeal the 2nd Amendment, its an outdated Amendment and right, IMHO.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 05:19:12 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

Source?

Is the source Trump? Then did he say the opposite the next day?
Trump had this to say:

Quote
Donald J. Trump✔
@realDonaldTrump
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

7:12 AM - Feb 15, 2018

Given the regulation he rolled back last January, it would have been hilarious if it weren't for the gruesome occasion.
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 05:28:29 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

Source?

Is the source Trump? Then did he say the opposite the next day?
Trump had this to say:

Quote
Donald J. Trump✔
@realDonaldTrump
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

7:12 AM - Feb 15, 2018

Given the regulation he rolled back last January, it would have been hilarious if it weren't for the gruesome occasion.

Was this kid receiving disability? Did he have somebody else legally appointed to manage his financial affairs?

If not, the rep payee executive order had nothing to do with this.

Background:

http://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2017/2/6/14522132/gun-control-disabilities-republicans-nra-obama


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 05:28:56 PM »

Offline liam

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What I can't understand if someone from another country were to target 17-50 Americans overseas and kill them once a month, this country would be at war with that country or group.

But Americans can mass murder Americans and, sorry, we just have to take it....2nd Amendment. I agree with everything fwf wrote above.

If I had my druthers I would repeal the 2nd Amendment, its an outdated Amendment and right, IMHO.

Good points. This will not lead to a better healthcare system to aid mentally ill folks nor to any reasonable gun laws just more thoughts and prayers... How about some thoughts on some actions that could prevent these shootings and get people the healthcare they need? Healthcare is the answer to a lot of what is going wrong. We are moving in the wrong direction on Healthcare and on some kind of gun control!

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 05:48:37 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

I have serious doubts about the veracity of this statement but it is true (based on all the reports that I can find) that Obama enforced deportations at a higher rate than Bush and at a higher rate so far than Trump:

Quote
Also on Tuesday, new statistics from the Department of Homeland Security (reported by Politico’s Ted Hesson) showed that deportations are actually down from last year — from an average 20,000 deportations per month in 2016 to an average of 16,900 over the first five months of Trump’s presidency.

Of course the Foxnews talking point on this fact is to cournter with "yeah but Mexicans are afraid to cross the boarder now so there are fewer illegals to deport".  I believe there is some truth to the fact that fewer are crossing but this is a trend that started during the Obama administration.

Now if fewer illegals are crossing the boarder thanks to Obama's iron-fisted enforcement of deportations, doesn't that also show we don't really need a wall?

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2018, 06:37:11 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Such a complex issue.  The ONLY thing I disagree with is when people refuse to be open to discussion about what to do.   I am in schools all the time.  Today I was consulting with a high  school principal and assistant principal about a cadre of students who are troubled and disengaged.  Every HS in America has students with mental health challenges and many of these youth have unstable home situations and some have access to guns (btw, the consultation today was in New Hampshire in an area where gun ownership is common and highly valued).   The interesting thing is actually that the vast majority of teens who might meet many of the risk indicators (MH issues, gun access, unstable homes, school disengagement, relationship problems...) will actually NOT become school shooters.   My point is that fine tuning the assessment of risk factors and "protective" factors (i.e. factors that mitigate risk) will not produce an iron clad profile, but may serve to get us closer to identifying those most likely to commit these crimes.  That said, identifying how to effectively intervene when school/community/family culture is invested in reactive "discipline" as opposed to proactive support will be an additional monumental challenge.

All I can say is that I hope there are only a dwindling few still out there who are closed to a conversation that COULD include measures that reframe gun ownership rights and gun owner obligations.  But... the solution, if there is one, needs to be multi-pronged. 

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 06:46:30 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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For me finding a middle ground absolutely needs to start with lifting the absurd, pathetic federal ban on the CDC collecting any data or conducting any studies about the effects of gun violence. Can't fix the problem if we can't study it. There also needs to be a dialogue between lawmakers, responsible gun owner groups (aka not the NRA), and researchers about the solutions best able to reduce not just the big public attacks but everyday killings as well.

To me that includes a focus on eliminating background check and transfer loopholes (not many left though), registering guns, closing bizarre discrepancies like the one that let a Florida 19-year-old buy an AR-15 but not a handgun.  Then reducing the number of rounds one person can fire over a given amount of time. Smaller clips/magazines, banning accessories designed to increase firing rate, etc.

I'm not keen on the mental health angle - the vast majority of mentally ill people are not a threat, and they're statistically more often the victims of gun crime than the perpetrators. It'd also add a legal stigma to being diagnosed that could discourage people from seeking treatment.  I might be ok with the extreme cases Obama's regulation targeted, but I'd really need a hard look at it and it's unlikely to make too much of a dent.  I'd like to see more resources devoted to law enforcement identifying people like this shooter in advance, but there's only so much they can do before there's evidence of a serious crime.

However it ends it all starts with driving out the craven, absurd line of rhetoric that argues these killings are completely inevitable and America simply has to lay down and take it, and starting to center our political debates around how to minimize these horrors rather than whether we can do anything about it at all.

TP+.  I would take it a step further and outlaw all semiautomatic rifles and shotguns.  If you can't defend your family with a pump shotgun, well I don't know what to tell you.  And outlaw all pistols outside of revolvers.  Basically get rid of anything that can be easily modified to unleash a large amount of bullets in a short amount of time.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2018, 06:58:04 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

On living out in the country and less populated areas: I live in rural Ohio, about 20 minutes from 3 "big towns".  The county we live in stretches about 40-45 miles and is patroled by TWO sheriffs.  We don't need guns to hunt with, we need them to protect our lives as it is not uncommon to take a sheriff 45-60 minutes to get to your home in an emergency/crime!  If a criminal is breaking into your home with intent to rob, rape, or kill you, your wife or children, you better be armed and ready to do whatever is necessary. 

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2018, 07:01:34 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2018, 07:05:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?
Yeah, if you get pulled over for driving an unregistered car you can get punishment from very expensive tickets to being arrested while the car is impounded.

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 08:05:37 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

On living out in the country and less populated areas: I live in rural Ohio, about 20 minutes from 3 "big towns".  The county we live in stretches about 40-45 miles and is patroled by TWO sheriffs.  We don't need guns to hunt with, we need them to protect our lives as it is not uncommon to take a sheriff 45-60 minutes to get to your home in an emergency/crime!  If a criminal is breaking into your home with intent to rob, rape, or kill you, your wife or children, you better be armed and ready to do whatever is necessary.

Regardless of where you live, if someone enters your house with the intent to rape or kill you, most people will wish they had a gun at that moment.  What some might not know is that having a gun would not assure protection.  Gun ownership comes with it's own safety issues, and it's pretty well accepted in the gun world that using a gun effectively in a time of panic is easier fantasized about than done.  I think I understand that protection of self/home is a right and even though I don't feel the need for a gun to protect myself and my family, I realize that my point of view is only one among many perspectives.  Consideration of how to solve the problem has to begin with open minds.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2018, 08:07:08 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?
Feel like you're missing the point--responsible, law abiding citizens are the only ones who would be affected by a requirement to register!  What good does that do, outside of raising revenue, which is the main purpose of almost all licenses and registrations?  You can't control the bad guys until it's too late!  So stop trying to by harassing responsible gunowners!

As an aside, I am a registered gun owner, of my own choice, as I have a concealed carry permit.  People that have guns to protect their homes and property don't need CCW's, and would be an unnecessary hassle to them.  Not everyone lives in a city or suburban area where there's a cop around the corner!

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2018, 08:15:08 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?
Feel like you're missing the point--responsible, law abiding citizens are the only ones who would be affected by a requirement to register!  What good does that do, outside of raising revenue, which is the main purpose of almost all licenses and registrations?  You can't control the bad guys until it's too late!  So stop trying to by harassing responsible gunowners!

As an aside, I am a registered gun owner, of my own choice, as I have a concealed carry permit.  People that have guns to protect their homes and property don't need CCW's, and would be an unnecessary hassle to them.  Not everyone lives in a city or suburban area where there's a cop around the corner!

I just see registration more as “sensible and pretty unobtrusive”, rather than “harassment”.


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