Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 21981 times)

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2018, 08:18:25 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 08:18:39 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Was this kid receiving disability? Did he have somebody else legally appointed to manage his financial affairs?

If not, the rep payee executive order had nothing to do with this.

Background:

http://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2017/2/6/14522132/gun-control-disabilities-republicans-nra-obama
I'm aware of the designated payee debate. Ultimately, the wall of text you referenced is trying to argue that a bunch of people that can't cash a check are fit to own guns. I mean even, even the examples of the "wide variety of disorders" sound like folks that would be fine walking around with a long rifle: aging grandmothers, autistic young adults, and middle-aged men with anxiety disorders.

Narrowly speaking, this is irrelevant to the current case. Other than anecdotally, the candidate didn't have medically diagnosed mental issues he was receiving help with. But the irony of Trump talking about someone being "completely deranged" while rolling back regulation that makes it more difficult for mentally unstable people to obtain guns is not lost on me.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 08:19:42 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 08:25:44 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I am a veteran who owns several guns, I believe in reasonable gun control.   People with mental illness have no business having guns.  Their rights should not trump public safety.  I don't know that I think that folks should have military grade weapons like an AR-15.   Hunting is very prevalent where I grew up but here in Ohio they make you use a shotgun to take deer.

We have a law like this in Ohio.
Quote
Weapon Under Disability
Ohio weapons under disability law forbid a person from having, trying to get, carrying or using a weapon if any of the following apply:

You’re a fugitive
You’re being indicted for a violent crime, you’ve been convicted of a violent crime or as a child you were convicted for what would be considered a violent felony if you had been an adult
You’re being indicted or have been convicted for a drug offense, either as an adult or a child
You’re a chronic alcoholic, drug dependent, or in danger of drug dependence
A judge has either deemed you mentally incompetent, mentally defective or mentally ill and subject to hospitalization, or you are or have been committed to a mental institution
Nearly every day in central Ohio people are charged with having weapons while under disability. Having weapons while under disability is a third degree felony punishable by up to 36 months in prison.

https://www.columbuscriminalattorney.com/weapons-crimes/weapon-under-disability/

Does MA have this?   I wonder if FLA does I doubt it.   

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 08:28:06 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.

That won't help. The law abiding citizens will do it, but that doesn't help fix the problem. Buying a gun is really easy to do. It's not uncommon for firearms to be rented out on the streets. You can only imagine how many bodies these rentals have behind them.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2018, 08:31:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I am a veteran who owns several guns, I believe in reasonable gun control.   People with mental illness have no business having guns.  Their rights should not trump public safety.  I don't know that I think that folks should have military grade weapons like an AR-15.   Hunting is very prevalent where I grew up but here in Ohio they make you use a shotgun to take deer.

We have a law like this in Ohio.
Quote
Weapon Under Disability
Ohio weapons under disability law forbid a person from having, trying to get, carrying or using a weapon if any of the following apply:

You’re a fugitive
You’re being indicted for a violent crime, you’ve been convicted of a violent crime or as a child you were convicted for what would be considered a violent felony if you had been an adult
You’re being indicted or have been convicted for a drug offense, either as an adult or a child
You’re a chronic alcoholic, drug dependent, or in danger of drug dependence
A judge has either deemed you mentally incompetent, mentally defective or mentally ill and subject to hospitalization, or you are or have been committed to a mental institution
Nearly every day in central Ohio people are charged with having weapons while under disability. Having weapons while under disability is a third degree felony punishable by up to 36 months in prison.

https://www.columbuscriminalattorney.com/weapons-crimes/weapon-under-disability/

Does MA have this?   I wonder if FLA does I doubt it.

In Florida -

Not the alcohol part. The drug part, yes and no. 20 grams or more of weed is a felony, so a conviction on a felony charge won't allow you to get one. However, anything below that on marijuana is a misdemeanor and won't prevent you from purchasing one.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2018, 08:33:01 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.

That won't help. The law abiding citizens will do it, but that doesn't help fix the problem. Buying a gun is really easy to do. It's not uncommon for firearms to be rented out on the streets. You can only imagine how many bodies these rentals have behind them.

And yet, almost all of the guns used in mass shootings were purchased legally.

If we as a society want to restrict guns from dangerous people - criminals, batterers, schizophrenics - then there needs to be a mechanism to keep track of weapons.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2018, 08:33:28 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I am talking about if there was a national registry, every register gun would require a license and so if caught with a gun and no registration of ownership, you get punished. Its a hypothetical.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2018, 08:37:34 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.

That won't help. The law abiding citizens will do it, but that doesn't help fix the problem. Buying a gun is really easy to do. It's not uncommon for firearms to be rented out on the streets. You can only imagine how many bodies these rentals have behind them.

And yet, almost all of the guns used in mass shootings were purchased legally.

If we as a society want to restrict guns from dangerous people - criminals, batterers, schizophrenics - then there needs to be a mechanism to keep track of weapons.

Right and ATF can trace them back to their location of purchase, so despite this the problem still persists.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2018, 08:39:50 PM »

Online nickagneta

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I am a veteran who owns several guns, I believe in reasonable gun control.   People with mental illness have no business having guns.  Their rights should not trump public safety.  I don't know that I think that folks should have military grade weapons like an AR-15.   Hunting is very prevalent where I grew up but here in Ohio they make you use a shotgun to take deer.

We have a law like this in Ohio.
Quote
Weapon Under Disability
Ohio weapons under disability law forbid a person from having, trying to get, carrying or using a weapon if any of the following apply:

You’re a fugitive
You’re being indicted for a violent crime, you’ve been convicted of a violent crime or as a child you were convicted for what would be considered a violent felony if you had been an adult
You’re being indicted or have been convicted for a drug offense, either as an adult or a child
You’re a chronic alcoholic, drug dependent, or in danger of drug dependence
A judge has either deemed you mentally incompetent, mentally defective or mentally ill and subject to hospitalization, or you are or have been committed to a mental institution
Nearly every day in central Ohio people are charged with having weapons while under disability. Having weapons while under disability is a third degree felony punishable by up to 36 months in prison.

https://www.columbuscriminalattorney.com/weapons-crimes/weapon-under-disability/

Does MA have this?   I wonder if FLA does I doubt it.
I have a mental illness. I have participated in society without issue. I am a former business owner. I have no history of violence or anger management of any kind. Why should I be declined the use of a gun? Very few people with mental illness are homocidal. Like minute.

Having a mental illness can't be the only reason one shouldn't have a gun. It must be like the Ohio law.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2018, 08:42:20 PM »

Offline liam

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

On living out in the country and less populated areas: I live in rural Ohio, about 20 minutes from 3 "big towns".  The county we live in stretches about 40-45 miles and is patroled by TWO sheriffs.  We don't need guns to hunt with, we need them to protect our lives as it is not uncommon to take a sheriff 45-60 minutes to get to your home in an emergency/crime!  If a criminal is breaking into your home with intent to rob, rape, or kill you, your wife or children, you better be armed and ready to do whatever is necessary.

Regardless of where you live, if someone enters your house with the intent to rape or kill you, most people will wish they had a gun at that moment.  What some might not know is that having a gun would not assure protection.  Gun ownership comes with it's own safety issues, and it's pretty well accepted in the gun world that using a gun effectively in a time of panic is easier fantasized about than done.  I think I understand that protection of self/home is a right and even though I don't feel the need for a gun to protect myself and my family, I realize that my point of view is only one among many perspectives.  Consideration of how to solve the problem has to begin with open minds.

I have a large dog which I think is far better than having a gun. I did own a shotgun when I lived out in the country for snakes and wild dogs and such. I'm not sure of the justification for owning a machine gun of any kind.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2018, 08:47:36 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I am a veteran who owns several guns, I believe in reasonable gun control.   People with mental illness have no business having guns.  Their rights should not trump public safety.  I don't know that I think that folks should have military grade weapons like an AR-15.   Hunting is very prevalent where I grew up but here in Ohio they make you use a shotgun to take deer.

We have a law like this in Ohio.
Quote
Weapon Under Disability
Ohio weapons under disability law forbid a person from having, trying to get, carrying or using a weapon if any of the following apply:

You’re a fugitive
You’re being indicted for a violent crime, you’ve been convicted of a violent crime or as a child you were convicted for what would be considered a violent felony if you had been an adult
You’re being indicted or have been convicted for a drug offense, either as an adult or a child
You’re a chronic alcoholic, drug dependent, or in danger of drug dependence
A judge has either deemed you mentally incompetent, mentally defective or mentally ill and subject to hospitalization, or you are or have been committed to a mental institution
Nearly every day in central Ohio people are charged with having weapons while under disability. Having weapons while under disability is a third degree felony punishable by up to 36 months in prison.

https://www.columbuscriminalattorney.com/weapons-crimes/weapon-under-disability/

Does MA have this?   I wonder if FLA does I doubt it.
I have a mental illness. I have participated in society without issue. I am a former business owner. I have no history of violence or anger management of any kind. Why should I be declined the use of a gun? Very few people with mental illness are homocidal. Like minute.

Having a mental illness can't be the only reason one shouldn't have a gun. It must be like the Ohio law.

Depends on the type. I wouldn't want someone who is bi-polar, schizophrenic, manic depressant, etc. to have one.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2018, 08:49:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.

That won't help. The law abiding citizens will do it, but that doesn't help fix the problem. Buying a gun is really easy to do. It's not uncommon for firearms to be rented out on the streets. You can only imagine how many bodies these rentals have behind them.

And yet, almost all of the guns used in mass shootings were purchased legally.

If we as a society want to restrict guns from dangerous people - criminals, batterers, schizophrenics - then there needs to be a mechanism to keep track of weapons.

Right and ATF can trace them back to their location of purchase, so despite this the problem still persists.

There’s no coordinated system or central database. 

For instance, felons and batterers can’t own guns in Maine. Yet, other than self-compliance, there’s zero way to know what guns these people own or what they’ve done with them.

That seems like a problem, doesn’t it?


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2018, 08:49:53 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Bunch of basketball fans sitting around on the internet saying what will/might/won't/can't help.

It's almost like I wish there was a well established and respected institution with boatloads of people with expertise in data crunching, study design, study/data interpretation and knowledge of public health issues that could be deployed to at least look into the issue...but apparently just that is too partisan.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2018, 08:51:24 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Two points

On registry of all gunowners/guns:  And who registers the guns of gangs and criminals? SMH

The law? If they break the law, arrest them.

I mean, do we refuse to collect taxes because some criminals work under the table?

If a cop sees someone with a gun they will have the right to ask for their registration card and if they don't have one, impound the gun and arrest the person with the gun.

Are you referring to a CCW permit because having your gun registered is definitely not the same thing? I'm not in Massachusetts, so don't know about the open carry law there, but "concealed" is the key word with CCW.
I think Roy is talking about the hypothetical case where there is a national firearm registry.

That won't help. The law abiding citizens will do it, but that doesn't help fix the problem. Buying a gun is really easy to do. It's not uncommon for firearms to be rented out on the streets. You can only imagine how many bodies these rentals have behind them.

And yet, almost all of the guns used in mass shootings were purchased legally.

If we as a society want to restrict guns from dangerous people - criminals, batterers, schizophrenics - then there needs to be a mechanism to keep track of weapons.

Right and ATF can trace them back to their location of purchase, so despite this the problem still persists.

There’s no coordinated system or central database. 

For instance, felons and batterers can’t own guns in Maine. Yet, other than self-compliance, there’s zero way to know what guns these people own or what they’ve done with them.

That seems like a problem, doesn’t it?

Police will come knocking on your door if you stockpile too much Sudafed...but shooters can stockpile multiple guns and too much ammo to use without any flags getting tripped.