Author Topic: Gun Control?  (Read 20932 times)

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Gun Control?
« on: February 15, 2018, 03:28:39 PM »

Offline liam

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Is no gun control possible?

"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database."

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 03:32:34 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Is no gun control possible?

"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database."
Trump signed that more than a year ago. Fast forward to today, and it seems it worked out great.... NOT!
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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »

Offline liam

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How about health care for all so we can deal with metal illness in this country and some reasonable gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of metal ill people and people with primal backgrounds?

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 03:39:41 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Is no gun control possible?

"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database."

Did this regulation from Obama outright ban these 75,000 individuals from owning guns? Or did it just mean that these people would have to pass certain benchmarks if they wanted to own a gun?
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 03:40:25 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Taking away the Constitutional rights of everyone with a rep payee is overbroad, and would have done nothing to prevent this.

I support gun control, though. I’d limit the size of clips, anything that allows guns to fire faster than designed, shut down the gun show loophole and most other non-family family transfers. I’d also support a registry of all gun owners, which can be cross-checked by law enforcement and mental health officials.

I’m done with the “no registry” argument. If we have to register our cars, our hunting licenses, our professional employment, etc., then gun ownership should be tracked.


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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 03:40:52 PM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

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Both side have to be willing to meet in the middle.  I'm completely for people owning guns but what's the need for owning a machine gun or any kind of automatic/semi-automatic weapon? And I believe having stricter punishments for criminals would help in the long run.  In a situation like a mass shooting, there's zero reason for that nut job to waste time in jail costing tax payers $$.  It should be instant death penalty. 

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 03:44:51 PM »

Offline liam

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Is no gun control possible?

"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database."

Did this regulation from Obama outright ban these 75,000 individuals from owning guns? Or did it just mean that these people would have to pass certain benchmarks if they wanted to own a gun?

I believe so:

"The rule applied to “a narrow group of people who have been determined by the Social Security Administration to lack the capacity, on the basis of a mental disorder, to manage their affairs, specifically their benefit payments,” wrote Lindsay Nichols, federal policy director for the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, in testimony to Congress in February 2017."

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 03:45:46 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Is no gun control possible?

"President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database."

Did this regulation from Obama outright ban these 75,000 individuals from owning guns? Or did it just mean that these people would have to pass certain benchmarks if they wanted to own a gun?

I believe so:

"The rule applied to “a narrow group of people who have been determined by the Social Security Administration to lack the capacity, on the basis of a mental disorder, to manage their affairs, specifically their benefit payments,” wrote Lindsay Nichols, federal policy director for the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, in testimony to Congress in February 2017."

Okay, thanks.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 03:56:32 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Taking away the Constitutional rights of everyone with a rep payee is overbroad, and would have done nothing to prevent this.

I support gun control, though. I’d limit the size of clips, anything that allows guns to fire faster than designed, shut down the gun show loophole and most other non-family family transfers. I’d also support a registry of all gun owners, which can be cross-checked by law enforcement and mental health officials.

I’m done with the “no registry” argument. If we have to register our cars, our hunting licenses, our professional employment, etc., then gun ownership should be tracked.

You have made it sound so simple (as it should be).  The main argument against any kind of registry is that it is really a secret plan to first register all the guns and then follow up by taking away everyone's guns at a later date.  The republicans have whispered this conspiracy theory for so many years people out there really believe it.

I have actually heard people discussing one such plan that they believed that Obama had including their counter plan for how they would shoot whoever came to take their guns away.

My point is that the whole "gun rights" position is founded on a base of people who have been whipped up by lies.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 04:04:40 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 04:09:21 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Just remember; if our leaders keep offering thoughts & prayers and nothing else, things will turn out alright in the long run.



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Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 04:10:10 PM »

Offline CelticD

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

Source?

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 04:15:34 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Trump in his short time in office has taken away twice as many guns as Obama did in 8 years.

It is not helpful to spread lies. I can only imagine where you got this hot take from.

As for gun control - nope, it is not going to happen and that is very sad. These mass shootings are terrible, but they are not the only shootings. Why people need guns at all is beyond me. If you live out in the middle of nowhere and need to protect yourself from animals, then feel free to own a hunting rifle. Everybody else should focus on taser technology for personal protection. It's not just the mentally ill who are not equipped to handle the responsibility of owning a gun.

Edit: thank you fwf for the much more reasonable response below. America's obsession with their guns just really drives me crazy.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 04:16:55 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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The 2nd Amendment's not going away, but neither are these mass murders. For me finding a middle ground absolutely needs to start with lifting the absurd, pathetic federal ban on the CDC collecting any data or conducting any studies about the effects of gun violence. Can't fix the problem if we can't study it. There also needs to be a dialogue between lawmakers, responsible gun owner groups (aka not the NRA), and researchers about the solutions best able to reduce not just the big public attacks but everyday killings as well.

To me that includes a focus on eliminating background check and transfer loopholes (not many left though), registering guns, closing bizarre discrepancies like the one that let a Florida 19-year-old buy an AR-15 but not a handgun.  Then reducing the number of rounds one person can fire over a given amount of time. Smaller clips/magazines, banning accessories designed to increase firing rate, etc.

I'm not keen on the mental health angle - the vast majority of mentally ill people are not a threat, and they're statistically more often the victims of gun crime than the perpetrators. It'd also add a legal stigma to being diagnosed that could discourage people from seeking treatment.  I might be ok with the extreme cases Obama's regulation targeted, but I'd really need a hard look at it and it's unlikely to make too much of a dent.  I'd like to see more resources devoted to law enforcement identifying people like this shooter in advance, but there's only so much they can do before there's evidence of a serious crime.

However it ends it all starts with driving out the craven, absurd line of rhetoric that argues these killings are completely inevitable and America simply has to lay down and take it, and starting to center our political debates around how to minimize these horrors rather than whether we can do anything about it at all.

Re: Gun Control?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 04:21:24 PM »

Offline seancally

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I've always felt that the second amendment was written with the idea that the people could fight against tyranny and not be overwhelmed by force. That's at least one interpretation, obviously there are others. And I'm fine with people owning guns, generally and within reason.

But the argument against a registry because "then the gov't will know who to go and disarm" is flawed. If the US Gov't truly wants to disarm citizens and/or mobilize armed forces against citizens.... then that's exactly what's gonna happen. No amount of weaponry available to the civilian population, no matter how many rounds per second, will stop that drone from putting a bomb in your bedroom window or that armored vehicle from busting through your living room.

If you're so paranoid about government that you're clinging to guns for protection, you might as well just leave the country. Guns won't save you from that.
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