Poll

Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?

Horford
51 (83.6%)
Smart
10 (16.4%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Author Topic: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?  (Read 2743 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2018, 06:13:34 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3461
  • Tommy Points: 32
Horford:

4th in the league in 3PT% (1st among PF/C)
27th in assists (3rd among PF/C)
27th in rebounds (7th among PF)
Offensive/Defensive Ratings: 116/102
BPM: 4.8

But no, he's not flashy enough and he only scored 3 points in a solid win.

I actually like Smart, but good luck putting together a list like the one above. Worse defensive rating, worse plus/minus, complete opposite shooting, fewer assists (as a point guard), more turnovers, mediocre rebounding. Off the bench.

Thats nice but
Without Smart this team would not be +30 rating

With Smart playing, the team doesnt give up 120-130 pts

Team needs to extend Smart after this season. Heart of the team
You're kind of just saying things without really giving any evidence or anything. Byennie gave solid proof as to why Horford is clearly more valuable, and you just discarded it as if it wasn't there

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2018, 07:07:55 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12332
  • Tommy Points: 2419
There needs to be a selection for "BOTH".

Cannot believe the disconnect on here concerning how important BOTH of these guys are to our team.
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2018, 09:20:07 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5501
  • Tommy Points: 15
Can I select Smart under the following offseason conditions?

- Resign Smart to a MLE level 3 year deal.
-Trade of Tatum, Rozier, Horford, Yab, Morris and two best* first for Davis and Holiday.
-Trade Holiday to Jazz for Burks and Ingles.
-Sign LeBron vet min.
-Resign Monroe

Irving, Brown, Hayward, LeBron, Davis
Smart, Burks, Ingles, Theis, Monroe
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2018, 09:49:07 AM »

Offline timpiker

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1211
  • Tommy Points: 78
I think they both are equally VERY important

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2018, 09:50:22 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3257
  • Tommy Points: 165
Is this a serious question? ::)

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2018, 10:12:57 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4885
  • Tommy Points: 986
Horford:

4th in the league in 3PT% (1st among PF/C)
27th in assists (3rd among PF/C)
27th in rebounds (7th among PF)
Offensive/Defensive Ratings: 116/102
BPM: 4.8

But no, he's not flashy enough and he only scored 3 points in a solid win.

I actually like Smart, but good luck putting together a list like the one above. Worse defensive rating, worse plus/minus, complete opposite shooting, fewer assists (as a point guard), more turnovers, mediocre rebounding. Off the bench.

Thats nice but
Without Smart this team would not be +30 rating

With Smart playing, the team doesnt give up 120-130 pts

Team needs to extend Smart after this season. Heart of the team

Incoherent nonsense vs. objective data. Itís so hard to know which to believe.

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2018, 10:35:00 AM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24011
  • Tommy Points: 1050
  • What a Pub Should Be
39-5. 

Pretty even results


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2018, 12:00:42 PM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20435
  • Tommy Points: 518
Horford:

4th in the league in 3PT% (1st among PF/C)
27th in assists (3rd among PF/C)
27th in rebounds (7th among PF)
Offensive/Defensive Ratings: 116/102
BPM: 4.8

But no, he's not flashy enough and he only scored 3 points in a solid win.

I actually like Smart, but good luck putting together a list like the one above. Worse defensive rating, worse plus/minus, complete opposite shooting, fewer assists (as a point guard), more turnovers, mediocre rebounding. Off the bench.

Thats nice but
Without Smart this team would not be +30 rating

With Smart playing, the team doesnt give up 120-130 pts

Team needs to extend Smart after this season. Heart of the team

Incoherent nonsense vs. objective data. Itís so hard to know which to believe.

Do you know what Smart is shooting this season or was shooting?  Bc you love objective data/stats he should have been sent to the nbdl or won't fetch more than the MLE in the open market in the upcoming offseason

Is/will this be the case? you tell me.... Part of his contributions on the court are immeasurable... you know this

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2018, 12:04:22 PM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20435
  • Tommy Points: 518
39-5. 

Pretty even results

Take out Smart and you saw a team functioning on one leg

Take out Horford .... I predict team doesn't play any worse. Especially on the defensive end

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2018, 12:05:35 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24011
  • Tommy Points: 1050
  • What a Pub Should Be
39-5. 

Pretty even results

Take out Smart and you saw a team functioning on one leg

Take out Horford .... I predict team doesn't play any worse. Especially on the defensive end

Did you watch Horford on Griffin last night?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2018, 12:09:20 PM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20435
  • Tommy Points: 518
39-5. 

Pretty even results

Take out Smart and you saw a team functioning on one leg

Take out Horford .... I predict team doesn't play any worse. Especially on the defensive end

Did you watch Horford on Griffin last night?

yes and he played just ok D on him....while Griffin held Horford to 1-6

On the other hand Theis gave Griffin issues on both ends

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2018, 12:29:40 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9585
  • Tommy Points: 710
  • On To Banner 18!
Did people even see how this team did without Horford??

I think they are both important to us, but come on, I agree the C's looked bad w/o Smart (especially on defense), but I'm pretty sure this team looked extremely dysfunctional in games w/o Horford also (where Smart played those games too).

And what? Horford isn't allowed to have an average/mediocre stretch? Trust me, I'm confident he'll go back to being "youthful" Horford soon!
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2018, 12:31:09 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24011
  • Tommy Points: 1050
  • What a Pub Should Be
39-5. 

Pretty even results

Take out Smart and you saw a team functioning on one leg

Take out Horford .... I predict team doesn't play any worse. Especially on the defensive end

Did you watch Horford on Griffin last night?

yes and he played just ok D on him....while Griffin held Horford to 1-6

On the other hand Theis gave Griffin issues on both ends

Horford held Blake to 1-9 shooting when he was on him.

That's more than "ok" D. 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2018, 12:57:55 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4885
  • Tommy Points: 986
Horford:

4th in the league in 3PT% (1st among PF/C)
27th in assists (3rd among PF/C)
27th in rebounds (7th among PF)
Offensive/Defensive Ratings: 116/102
BPM: 4.8

But no, he's not flashy enough and he only scored 3 points in a solid win.

I actually like Smart, but good luck putting together a list like the one above. Worse defensive rating, worse plus/minus, complete opposite shooting, fewer assists (as a point guard), more turnovers, mediocre rebounding. Off the bench.

Thats nice but
Without Smart this team would not be +30 rating

With Smart playing, the team doesnt give up 120-130 pts

Team needs to extend Smart after this season. Heart of the team

Incoherent nonsense vs. objective data. Itís so hard to know which to believe.

Do you know what Smart is shooting this season or was shooting?  Bc you love objective data/stats he should have been sent to the nbdl or won't fetch more than the MLE in the open market in the upcoming offseason

Is/will this be the case? you tell me.... Part of his contributions on the court are immeasurable... you know this

OK, I'll tell you.

His contributions "on the court" are quite measurable, actually.

Despite Smart's poor shooting percentages, the team overall shoots (.512 vs. .517) and scores (107.1 vs 107.7) at about the same rates with him on the court as off the court.

What this means, since he has such bad percentages, is that everyone else actually shoots better with him on the court than when he's not on the court.

And then, our opponents shoot and score at significantly lower rates with him on the court. This is well known.

See? Perfectly measurable. He's a great player who makes the Celtics better when he's on the court. That is LITERALLY what on-court/off-court numbers tell you.

It's ridiculous to argue that he should be sent to the G league because of his shooting percentages. Those numbers obviously don't capture his value, as most people around here seem to understand.

And for you to raise that straw man just means you really don't understand how to use objective data to assess player value. I guess that's why you choose to ignore it.



Re: Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2018, 01:46:20 PM »

Offline shrinkage36

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 185
  • Tommy Points: 21
The coaches are the only ones that knows how valuable Smart is to this team. Everyone else, not so much.