Celtics need to change starters

[KGBirdBias]

The Celtics are too cool...too laid back. This attitude comes from Kyrie and Horford. It's time for some dogs to come out. I've been saying all year Tatum should come off the bench because he's being wasted with starters.

I would start Kyrie, Smart, Morris, Horford, Monroe. Let Rozzay, Tatum, Brown, Theis and Baynes come in the game with the opponents 2nd unit and feast...then Kyrie will have something left to close games. Tatum and Brown have stopped defending and boarding. Smart will set the tone on defense with the starters. Stevens still doesn't use his bigs well and needs to get off small ball and only use it to speed up pace, not the entire game or you will have guys like DJ drop 30/13. Big men kill us, so let's let the young guns run the 2nd unit. We need to dump the dead weight...Yabu, Nader a d possibly Semi for a better scorer...Evans would've been nice.

[KGBirdBias]

Change this stand-around and watch Kyrie offense too. Let's get some ball movement, cutters and weak side screens. Pound it inside to Monroe and stop shooting so many 3s...get to foul line more. 3s are nice when they're dropping but when they aren't, we have no other go-to.

Kyrie - how about some better D on perimeter to stop dribble penetration because if we play small ball we have no rim protection. You can't play small ball and give up layups, 2nd chance and 3s...you have no chance...pick one to stop.

[iadera]

We are just not that good as we think. We are slowly showing lottery-team-manners.

[Celtics4ever]

We are just not that good as we think. We are slowly showing lottery-team-manners.

I think this team in 2017 was overcompensating for the loss of Hayward.   They had a great mental effort and like then, it must have been taxing because we don't have it now.   

[Vermont Green]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

[Moranis]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

Why is it hard to understand?  Boston is a young team with very few truly good defenders.  I mean really only Horford and Smart are consistently good defenders, while others like Morris and Brown show flashes they aren't consistent (in the case of Morris he never has been and Brown is just young).  The team that was 22-4 is not the actual level of this team.  That team was playing well above their actual skill level all at the same time.  It wasn't sustainable because it just isn't good enough.  I got a lot of flack for taking that position on this board because I felt so many had these unrealistic expectations as a result of that hot start and the expectations really needed to be tempered (and frankly still do by a lot of people, though a lot less than before).  Boston, without Hayward, is a mid-tier playoff team.  Without Hayward and Smart, Boston is a lower tier playoff team.  That is sadly just the reality of this team.

[iadera]

Hayward is not a magician. He's not gonna change a lot for this team. Well, maybe a lot, but still not enough.

[chiken Green]

No.

Kyrie came to this team to learn how to expand his game... To learn how to be a more well-rounded point guard... These are his words and we are seeing it now. The areas that he needs to improve.. He is learning how to run a team on his own..  A lot of what is happening to our offense he has taken responsibility for and he is learning from it.  Yes, it looks rough right now but that is how you learn.

When Gordon went down. The priority became getting Tatum and Brown up to speed for next year. Let them finish this season and enter the playoffs as Starters.. Give them that full view of what is needed to be special.. These guys are not future 6th and 7th men in this league so why give them a Taste of that..

This team is giving up points right now like crazy.. Adding Morris and Monroe to the starting line up WILL not stop that..  We have zero energy on Defense right now.. It gets worse when Morris and Monroe enter the game.

We do not have what it takes to Win it all.. We knew that when Gordon went down. There is no combination of players who start or Finish that will make us better than Golden state.. We have to keep our eye on the big picture..

and lastly adding another professional 20+ point scorer to play alongside of KI will be a tremendous help... He is worn down right now trying to carry this offense and also playing defense as hard as he has been playing. You can see it at the end of games, He doesn't have the legs..  He is working way to hard..  Gordon will definitely change that.

This team will get better after the ASB.. We will play better basketball but everything that happens this year is just icing on a cake that wont be ready until next years playoffs.

[JHTruth]

No.

Kyrie came to this team to learn how to expand his game... To learn how to be a more well-rounded point guard... These are his words and we are seeing it now. The areas that he needs to improve.. He is learning how to run a team on his own..  A lot of what is happening to our offense he has taken responsibility for and he is learning from it.  Yes, it looks rough right now but that is how you learn.

When Gordon went down. The priority became getting Tatum and Brown up to speed for next year. Let them finish this season and enter the playoffs as Starters.. Give them that full view of what is needed to be special.. These guys are not future 6th and 7th men in this league so why give them a Taste of that..

This team is giving up points right now like crazy.. Adding Morris and Monroe to the starting line up WILL not stop that..  We have zero energy on Defense right now.. It gets worse when Morris and Monroe enter the game.

We do not have what it takes to Win it all.. We knew that when Gordon went down. There is no combination of players who start or Finish that will make us better than Golden state.. We have to keep our eye on the big picture..

and lastly adding another professional 20+ point scorer to play alongside of KI will be a tremendous help... He is worn down right now trying to carry this offense and also playing defense as hard as he has been playing. You can see it at the end of games, He doesn't have the legs..  He is working way to hard..  Gordon will definitely change that.

This team will get better after the ASB.. We will play better basketball but everything that happens this year is just icing on a cake that wont be ready until next years playoffs.

Baynes brings the energy for sure but he's regressed into an absolute foul machine as of late. He's tired and trying to keep up the intensity. It's not working. Need more pace in the game..

[KGBirdBias]

No.

Kyrie came to this team to learn how to expand his game... To learn how to be a more well-rounded point guard... These are his words and we are seeing it now. The areas that he needs to improve.. He is learning how to run a team on his own..  A lot of what is happening to our offense he has taken responsibility for and he is learning from it.  Yes, it looks rough right now but that is how you learn.

When Gordon went down. The priority became getting Tatum and Brown up to speed for next year. Let them finish this season and enter the playoffs as Starters.. Give them that full view of what is needed to be special.. These guys are not future 6th and 7th men in this league so why give them a Taste of that..

This team is giving up points right now like crazy.. Adding Morris and Monroe to the starting line up WILL not stop that..  We have zero energy on Defense right now.. It gets worse when Morris and Monroe enter the game.

We do not have what it takes to Win it all.. We knew that when Gordon went down. There is no combination of players who start or Finish that will make us better than Golden state.. We have to keep our eye on the big picture..

and lastly adding another professional 20+ point scorer to play alongside of KI will be a tremendous help... He is worn down right now trying to carry this offense and also playing defense as hard as he has been playing. You can see it at the end of games, He doesn't have the legs..  He is working way to hard..  Gordon will definitely change that.

This team will get better after the ASB.. We will play better basketball but everything that happens this year is just icing on a cake that wont be ready until next years playoffs.

I can agree with a lot of this. I think Kyrie is learning how to carry a team, BUT he can't just say it. Part of it comes from passing, trusting teammates on the court. I'd like to see him not take on so many double teams and allow his assists to go up. If Hayward was out there it would be a different story. I'd much rather see him get 20/12 verses 30/5 and his teammates will start to trust him more.

Tatum may have hit a wall. Other teams may have caught up to Stevens offense and if I can see and anticipate what they're running from my couch, I know NBA coaches can too.

[Vermont Green]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

Why is it hard to understand?  Boston is a young team with very few truly good defenders.  I mean really only Horford and Smart are consistently good defenders, while others like Morris and Brown show flashes they aren't consistent (in the case of Morris he never has been and Brown is just young).  The team that was 22-4 is not the actual level of this team.  That team was playing well above their actual skill level all at the same time.  It wasn't sustainable because it just isn't good enough.  I got a lot of flack for taking that position on this board because I felt so many had these unrealistic expectations as a result of that hot start and the expectations really needed to be tempered (and frankly still do by a lot of people, though a lot less than before).  Boston, without Hayward, is a mid-tier playoff team.  Without Hayward and Smart, Boston is a lower tier playoff team.  That is sadly just the reality of this team.

I don't understand where the defense went.  They were a scrappy defensive team during the 22-4 run.  Now they aren't.  Where did that go?  They should be more consistent, even when Smart is injured.

I do understand that Horford was not going to hit 50% 3s all season and that Brown and Tatum would hit a wall at some point.  I understand scoring lulls and teams zeroing in on weaknesses of Brown and Tatum.  But I don't understand where the scrappy defense went.

[Moranis]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

Why is it hard to understand?  Boston is a young team with very few truly good defenders.  I mean really only Horford and Smart are consistently good defenders, while others like Morris and Brown show flashes they aren't consistent (in the case of Morris he never has been and Brown is just young).  The team that was 22-4 is not the actual level of this team.  That team was playing well above their actual skill level all at the same time.  It wasn't sustainable because it just isn't good enough.  I got a lot of flack for taking that position on this board because I felt so many had these unrealistic expectations as a result of that hot start and the expectations really needed to be tempered (and frankly still do by a lot of people, though a lot less than before).  Boston, without Hayward, is a mid-tier playoff team.  Without Hayward and Smart, Boston is a lower tier playoff team.  That is sadly just the reality of this team.

I don't understand where the defense went.  They were a scrappy defensive team during the 22-4 run.  Now they aren't.  Where did that go?  They should be more consistent, even when Smart is injured.

I do understand that Horford was not going to hit 50% 3s all season and that Brown and Tatum would hit a wall at some point.  I understand scoring lulls and teams zeroing in on weaknesses of Brown and Tatum.  But I don't understand where the scrappy defense went.

it was an unsustainable level of play brought on mostly by the insane offense which created a higher than normal energy level which fueled the offense.  Think about this way, how many players on this team are good defenders.  There just aren't enough of those players to keep this team as a top tier defense.  They just aren't good enough individually

[JHTruth]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

Why is it hard to understand?  Boston is a young team with very few truly good defenders.  I mean really only Horford and Smart are consistently good defenders, while others like Morris and Brown show flashes they aren't consistent (in the case of Morris he never has been and Brown is just young).  The team that was 22-4 is not the actual level of this team.  That team was playing well above their actual skill level all at the same time.  It wasn't sustainable because it just isn't good enough.  I got a lot of flack for taking that position on this board because I felt so many had these unrealistic expectations as a result of that hot start and the expectations really needed to be tempered (and frankly still do by a lot of people, though a lot less than before).  Boston, without Hayward, is a mid-tier playoff team.  Without Hayward and Smart, Boston is a lower tier playoff team.  That is sadly just the reality of this team.

I don't understand where the defense went.  They were a scrappy defensive team during the 22-4 run.  Now they aren't.  Where did that go?  They should be more consistent, even when Smart is injured.

I do understand that Horford was not going to hit 50% 3s all season and that Brown and Tatum would hit a wall at some point.  I understand scoring lulls and teams zeroing in on weaknesses of Brown and Tatum.  But I don't understand where the scrappy defense went.

it was an unsustainable level of play brought on mostly by the insane offense which created a higher than normal energy level which fueled the offense.  Think about this way, how many players on this team are good defenders.  There just aren't enough of those players to keep this team as a top tier defense.  They just aren't good enough individually

They played their behinds off all around at the beginning of the year. Guys like Baynes are not all-world defenders on a night-by-night basis. They were just possessed demons for about 30 games and they predictably started to fall of a cliff to regress to their mean. It's a long season, that's why you need some interior offense to anchor your offense.

I mean we all say Baynes bent over clutching his shorts after like a min in the second half right? He's toasted, along with plenty of others..

[Tr1boy]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

The reason...horford stinks

Smart cant return soon enough

[Vermont Green]

We have been giving up a lot of points.  I don't understand it.

In terms of the OP suggested changes, it is Smart over Brown, Morris over Tatum, and Monroe over Baynes.  I am not necessarily opposed to any of the changes but I doubt we would do them all at once.  I think Smart likes to come off the bench (and tends to be in there at the end) and Monroe should be starting but he does not appear quite ready yet.

So let's start by putting in Morris for Tatum.  He is a better defender and doesn't give up that much as a scorer compared to Tatum.  My second choice would be to start Marcus and slide Brown to SF.  I do agree that bringing Tatum off the bench in some combination is the right idea.

Why is it hard to understand?  Boston is a young team with very few truly good defenders.  I mean really only Horford and Smart are consistently good defenders, while others like Morris and Brown show flashes they aren't consistent (in the case of Morris he never has been and Brown is just young).  The team that was 22-4 is not the actual level of this team.  That team was playing well above their actual skill level all at the same time.  It wasn't sustainable because it just isn't good enough.  I got a lot of flack for taking that position on this board because I felt so many had these unrealistic expectations as a result of that hot start and the expectations really needed to be tempered (and frankly still do by a lot of people, though a lot less than before).  Boston, without Hayward, is a mid-tier playoff team.  Without Hayward and Smart, Boston is a lower tier playoff team.  That is sadly just the reality of this team.

I don't understand where the defense went.  They were a scrappy defensive team during the 22-4 run.  Now they aren't.  Where did that go?  They should be more consistent, even when Smart is injured.

I do understand that Horford was not going to hit 50% 3s all season and that Brown and Tatum would hit a wall at some point.  I understand scoring lulls and teams zeroing in on weaknesses of Brown and Tatum.  But I don't understand where the scrappy defense went.

it was an unsustainable level of play brought on mostly by the insane offense which created a higher than normal energy level which fueled the offense.  Think about this way, how many players on this team are good defenders.  There just aren't enough of those players to keep this team as a top tier defense.  They just aren't good enough individually

They played their behinds off all around at the beginning of the year. Guys like Baynes are not all-world defenders on a night-by-night basis. They were just possessed demons for about 30 games and they predictably started to fall of a cliff to regress to their mean. It's a long season, that's why you need some interior offense to anchor your offense.

I mean we all say Baynes bent over clutching his shorts after like a min in the second half right? He's toasted, along with plenty of others..

I buy that theory for offense; shooting and scoring, as every shot is a percentage so shooting does revert to a statistical mean after a period of being "hot".  I do not buy that theory for playing defense.  If the problem is that they are not able to sustain a level of effort, to me, that is a coaching problem. 

There is no reason, for example, that the team did not display maximum defensive effort last night against the Clippers.  They need a win and they get most of a week to rest afterwards.  There is no reverting to a statistical mean here.  They just weren't scrappy enough against a team that really isn't that good.

I don't expect that any team can sustain maximum effort for every game for an entire season (although the 2007-8 Celtics was an exception) but this has been going on for a while.  It is at risk of becoming the new normal.  The coach and team leaders are not supposed to let that happen.