Author Topic: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax  (Read 1211 times)

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Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« on: February 13, 2018, 04:57:26 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Kyrie performance so far = B or B+ .  He is playing as advertised, though I thought he could do more...or show something different outside of Lebrons shadow

It will be interesting what happens after next season or even this upcoming offseason (the type of money Smart, Rozier will receive etc) that could determine how much money the Celts will throw at Kyrie in 2020-2021


Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 05:06:53 PM »

Offline jambr380

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No worries, since he is not eligible for the supermax...at least not until he is a 10+ year veteran. A supermax is nothing more than 35% of the salary cap. Players that are eligible need to be drafted by the team offering it AND need to make an All-NBA team the year before signing the contract.

What he will be eligible for is a Horford/Hayward type contract (30% of salary cap), but with a 5th year option. That seems reasonable for Kyrie and something he would no doubt get on the open market.

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 05:14:17 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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No worries, since he is not eligible for the supermax...at least not until he is a 10+ year veteran. A supermax is nothing more than 35% of the salary cap. Players that are eligible need to be drafted by the team offering it AND need to make an All-NBA team the year before signing the contract.

What he will be eligible for is a Horford/Hayward type contract (30% of salary cap), but with a 5th year option. That seems reasonable for Kyrie and something he would no doubt get on the open market.

thanks.

I didn't know all those criteria had to be met

so 10 years, stay with the team that drafted them and make an all nba squad the season prior?

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 05:27:35 PM »

Offline jambr380

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No worries, since he is not eligible for the supermax...at least not until he is a 10+ year veteran. A supermax is nothing more than 35% of the salary cap. Players that are eligible need to be drafted by the team offering it AND need to make an All-NBA team the year before signing the contract.

What he will be eligible for is a Horford/Hayward type contract (30% of salary cap), but with a 5th year option. That seems reasonable for Kyrie and something he would no doubt get on the open market.

thanks.

I didn't know all those criteria had to be met

so 10 years, stay with the team that drafted them and make an all nba squad the season prior?

At 10 years any player is essentially eligible for the 'supermax'.

The other two criteria are required if a player wants to sign for 35% prior to the 10 year mark.

EDIT: I figured I should extrapolate on a few distinctions:

-Player needs to be drafted by original team or obtained by a team while still on rookie contract

AND

-Player needs to have made an All-NBA team in the previous year or 2 of the last 3 OR
 Player needs to be DPOY in the previous year or 2 of the last 3 OR
 Player needs to have been MVP in 1 of the last 3 years.

Since it is uncommon for such a player to be moved on a rookie contract and a player who is DPOY/MVP is almost always All-NBA, these details often get left out.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 05:40:36 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 05:47:33 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So AFTER next season, when Kyrie hits FA, what's the max-extension we can offer him?

5/162M? (5th year option) - Is that right? And what's the deal with Bird Rights here?
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Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 05:49:24 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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Irving is a lazy player for the most part. The reason why i say that is because he can literally get to the rim and finish AT WILL, against ANYONE. Yet, he decides to take contested 3's that he never comes close to making. It's just lazy basketball.

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 05:56:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

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He’ll get paid whatever max salary is available. In an ideal world, a scoring PG wouldn’t be our highest paid player, but the market is what it is.


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Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2018, 06:00:12 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Irving is a lazy player for the most part. The reason why i say that is because he can literally get to the rim and finish AT WILL, against ANYONE. Yet, he decides to take contested 3's that he never comes close to making. It's just lazy basketball.

I agree... those quick 3s should stop

unless he is "feeling" it

otherwise all you are doing is sucking the air out of the team

He is mediocre in running a team also.  I thought this part of his game would improve

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 06:01:54 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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He’ll get paid whatever max salary is available. In an ideal world, a scoring PG wouldn’t be our highest paid player, but the market is what it is.

yes.  Max like the type of max Hayward, Horford are receiving is fine

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 06:20:41 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Irving is a lazy player for the most part. The reason why i say that is because he can literally get to the rim and finish AT WILL, against ANYONE. Yet, he decides to take contested 3's that he never comes close to making. It's just lazy basketball.

That isn't quite what's happening, actually.

Kyrie is actually shooting at a pretty good percentage on contested shots.  He has shot 39.2% on threes that are "tightly" covered (defender between 2 and 4 ft away) and 30% on "very tight" (defender within 2 ft).  The latter is a very small sample of just 10 shots all season, but 30% is actually good on that kind of shot.  And his 39.2% on tightly contested shots (which are his largest sample) is actually very good.  Most player's efficiency tanks with defenders that close.

Where Kyrie is underperforming is, like a lot of our roster, on "wide open" threes.  That is, on shots that have no defender within 6 ft and definitely NOT "contested".   On those shots, Kyrie is shooting just 34.1%.   That's well-below league average (~40%) for wide-open threes.

Unfortunately, Kyrie is not alone.  Only Jayson (46.8%), Yabusele (45.5%), Horford (44.9%) and Jaylen (40.0%) are shooting league-average or above on wide-open threes.   The rest of the roster are all shooting 36.1% or lower on what should be a much higher-percentage shot.

This is very much counter to what is 'normal'.  Most players tend to shoot much, MUCH better on wide-open threes.  Hence the league average is so much higher on that shot than on threes with tighter coverage.   But other than for the 4 guys I mentioned, not so for the Celtics!

Our bizarre underperformance on these shots (which our offense has actually been very good at generating) and our paucity of attempts at the rim (and poor finishing at the rim) are the two glaring reasons our offense is so bad.

As a team, we rank near the bottom of the league in efficiency at these two shot types. 
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Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 06:33:54 PM »

Offline matteo

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Irving is a lazy player for the most part. The reason why i say that is because he can literally get to the rim and finish AT WILL, against ANYONE. Yet, he decides to take contested 3's that he never comes close to making. It's just lazy basketball.

That isn't quite what's happening, actually.

Kyrie is actually shooting at a pretty good percentage on contested shots.  He has shot 39.2% on threes that are "tightly" covered (defender between 2 and 4 ft away) and 30% on "very tight" (defender within 2 ft).  The latter is a very small sample of just 10 shots all season, but 30% is actually good on that kind of shot.  And his 39.2% on tightly contested shots (which are his largest sample) is actually very good.  Most player's efficiency tanks with defenders that close.

Where Kyrie is underperforming is, like a lot of our roster, on "wide open" threes.  That is, on shots that have no defender within 6 ft and definitely NOT "contested".   On those shots, Kyrie is shooting just 34.1%.   That's well-below league average (~40%) for wide-open threes.

Unfortunately, Kyrie is not alone.  Only Jayson (46.8%), Yabusele (45.5%), Horford (44.9%) and Jaylen (40.0%) are shooting league-average or above on wide-open threes.   The rest of the roster are all shooting 36.1% or lower on what should be a much higher-percentage shot.

This is very much counter to what is 'normal'.  Most players tend to shoot much, MUCH better on wide-open threes.  Hence the league average is so much higher on that shot than on threes with tighter coverage.   But other than for the 4 guys I mentioned, not so for the Celtics!

Our bizarre underperformance on these shots (which our offense has actually been very good at generating) and our paucity of attempts at the rim (and poor finishing at the rim) are the two glaring reasons our offense is so bad.

As a team, we rank near the bottom of the league in efficiency at these two shot types.

TP, I was gonna dig but you saved me the time, thanks

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 06:49:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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trade him for Fultz

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 07:02:50 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Kyrie performance so far = B or B+ .  He is playing as advertised, though I thought he could do more...or show something different outside of Lebrons shadow

It will be interesting what happens after next season or even this upcoming offseason (the type of money Smart, Rozier will receive etc) that could determine how much money the Celts will throw at Kyrie in 2020-2021

Maybe the earth is not as flat in Boston as Cleveland .....he is getting use to going in circles .... ;)

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 04:12:35 PM »

Offline mrb617

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We haven't seen Kyrie in the playoffs yet. I think he will convince everyone when they see him in the playoffs. Especially next year with Gordon and another big piece (hopefully) when we actually have a shot to win the championship. He will step up and his clutch gene will prove any doubters wrong.

Re: Kyrie fan but at the moment he is not worth supermax
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 04:27:24 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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You have to pay the man because he will be offered that max by some other team