Author Topic: Stevens' system and big men  (Read 2614 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 03:38:39 AM »

Offline CelticsJG

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 201
  • Tommy Points: 11
I say this, Brad over values a utility big and under vales an athletic big,

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 10:18:57 AM »

Offline Jamilmac99

  • The Green Kornet
  • Posts: 91
  • Tommy Points: 9
Brad Stevens is highly overrated. Not necessarily terrible, usually adequate, but occasionally much worse. We have been pumping him up for years now. Granted, this team overachieved early in the season but has sadly come crashing back down to Earth the last few months. Some of it is certainly the defects in the roster but I'm starting to see an alarming trend of players not giving 100% effort. The lack of in game adjustments and great probability that they will fall behind by 20 points or more is shockingly concerning. We've all seen Brad leave the scrubs in there while leads balloon up. Is Brad too much of a nice guy? I know Danny loves him but I wonder what it would take for Brad to be fired. I'm not suggesting this as we have no replacement but at some point Brad does deserve some criticism.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 10:29:38 AM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
I'm certainly not going to call for Kid Wonder's head yet, but if Moose continues to ride the pine in favor of chucking and small ball, it won't be long..

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 10:31:11 AM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
10 minutes just isn't enough for Monroe. 8 pts, 5 reb, and he can't get more PT than 10 minutes. Pretty clear that Stevens isn't comfortable playing Monroe, which is a shame because I was hopeful Stevens would figure how to use his strong inside scoring coming off the bench.
First, Monroe is trying to acclimate to the team.  Second, Monroe is going to have HUGE issues defensively. I’m sure he can guard his man just fine but he’ll onky use that like 10% of the time.  He’ll be a big liability playing pick and roll and has virtually no chance to switch and guard effectively.

I think as the season goes he’ll find himself completely out of the lineup actually.

Hmm, not seeing it. He's always been a positive DBPM defender and he's in the top 20% of P&R defenders amongst bigs. Highly underrated defender..

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 10:34:34 AM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
I'm certainly not going to call for Kid Wonder's head yet, but if Moose continues to ride the pine in favor of chucking and small ball, it won't be long..

Would you please do us all a favor and knock it off with the 'Kid Wonder' nonsense? You have been referencing this term in many of your recent posts like you think it is going to catch on. While Stevens (or any coach) isn't above criticism, it isn't cute or funny and it really only detracts from what you otherwise might have to say.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
Right now Stevens needs to set aside his small ball obsession and be willing to play our big men.  The offense doesn't get better enough going small and the defense suffers.

Beyond that, it's roster problems.  This is what happens when you lean on Terry Rozier, who can't pass or make any plays for other people, and then have the rest of our roster be the same way with guys like Brown and Tatum able to make a decent assist once in a blue moon.  And it's what happens when you don't have knock down 3 point shooters outside of Al and Kyrie (yes, some other guys have quality percentages but still not enough shooting and they are reluctant shooters, especially Tatum these days)
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 10:35:46 AM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
I'm certainly not going to call for Kid Wonder's head yet, but if Moose continues to ride the pine in favor of chucking and small ball, it won't be long..

Would you please do us all a favor and knock it off with the 'Kid Wonder' nonsense? You have been referencing this term in many of your recent posts like you think it is going to catch on. While Stevens (or any coach) isn't above criticism, it isn't cute or funny and it really only detracts from what you otherwise might have to say.

Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Opinions vary :)

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2018, 10:38:48 AM »

Offline seancally

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
  • Tommy Points: 119
Unfair to even talk about Monroe's usage at this point. He needs to learn the defensive scheme, more than anything else. Looked lost on a number of rotations. Great rebounder, passer, finisher and I'm sure he'll find a place in our lineup - and that CBS will maximize his talent.

Before we talk about Stevens' ability to use his bigs, go ahead and look at the list of guys he's had to work with. Nothing special, huh? All deeply flawed - and even Horford, easily our best big since Ticket, is really an elite role player. He shines when he doesn't have to be the focal point - moving the ball, playing from the elbow, hitting open shots, anchoring smart defense.

Mainly, while we have played very well, and while this is our best squad under Stevens, we are incomplete. Doesn't mean we still can't make a run at the EC title, but this is how it works: If we make the Finals it's a success of Stevens, if we fall short it's because we don't have the firepower - not because Stevens didn't turn flawed big men into all-stars (well... except for Horford).
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 12:00:35 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
if we fall short it's because we don't have the firepower - not because Stevens didn't turn flawed big men into all-stars (well... except for Horford).


Sure, lets just ignore the fact that Horford was a 4x all-star in Atlanta. In fact, he made the all-star team in 4 out of his last 7 seasons there, which would've likely been more if he hadn't been injured for the majority of 2 seasons. So yeah, Stevens turned him into an all-star.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2018, 12:28:04 PM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
if we fall short it's because we don't have the firepower - not because Stevens didn't turn flawed big men into all-stars (well... except for Horford).


Sure, lets just ignore the fact that Horford was a 4x all-star in Atlanta. In fact, he made the all-star team in 4 out of his last 7 seasons there, which would've likely been more if he hadn't been injured for the majority of 2 seasons. So yeah, Stevens turned him into an all-star.

I might not argue that Horford was actually a better player in Atlanta, although a case could be made.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2018, 01:03:50 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9672
  • Tommy Points: 325
You probably won't get a ton of agreement, but this is why I'm a highly restrained CBS fan. When the shots are falling for the first 40 games or so he looks like a wunderkind, a genius of the highest order, the greatest coach in NBA history. But the NBA season is long, and you need solid inside post play to get more easy buckets, preserve those legs for jumpers later in the year, and diversify your offense. You see now the impacts of relying too much on jumpers and threes as the year goes on, shooters start to get tired and we're getting blown out nearly every game. You can't maintain the torrid shooting pace we had at the beginning of the year for 82+ games.

I know small-ball is supposedly all the rage, but I am not buying it. There's still a bunch of great big man in the league and we really need it badly. It's like the franchise with the greatest frontline in history has been allergic to the paint since ObieBall.

I'm with you. The only ways small ball can work are 1) if you have 3 or 4 all-star shooters like the Warriors, and 2) if you have LeBron. We have neither of those things.

Plus, if the Celtics are exhausted only halfway through the season, there's not much hope of running other teams off the court, which is kinda the point of small ball in the first place.

And besides all of that, the playoffs are mostly a halfcourt game, and small teams get killed in the halfcourt (unless you have one of the two things I noted earlier, which we don't).
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2018, 01:13:37 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Right now Stevens needs to set aside his small ball obsession and be willing to play our big men.  The offense doesn't get better enough going small and the defense suffers.
You'd think that will almost be a no-brainer now that we only had 3 healthy guards (and 9 rotation caliber players overall). Not to our coaching staff, I guess.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 01:18:37 PM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
You probably won't get a ton of agreement, but this is why I'm a highly restrained CBS fan. When the shots are falling for the first 40 games or so he looks like a wunderkind, a genius of the highest order, the greatest coach in NBA history. But the NBA season is long, and you need solid inside post play to get more easy buckets, preserve those legs for jumpers later in the year, and diversify your offense. You see now the impacts of relying too much on jumpers and threes as the year goes on, shooters start to get tired and we're getting blown out nearly every game. You can't maintain the torrid shooting pace we had at the beginning of the year for 82+ games.

I know small-ball is supposedly all the rage, but I am not buying it. There's still a bunch of great big man in the league and we really need it badly. It's like the franchise with the greatest frontline in history has been allergic to the paint since ObieBall.

I'm with you. The only ways small ball can work are 1) if you have 3 or 4 all-star shooters like the Warriors, and 2) if you have LeBron. We have neither of those things.

Plus, if the Celtics are exhausted only halfway through the season, there's not much hope of running other teams off the court, which is kinda the point of small ball in the first place.

And besides all of that, the playoffs are mostly a halfcourt game, and small teams get killed in the halfcourt (unless you have one of the two things I noted earlier, which we don't).

Couldn't agree more. The NBA, like the NFL is a copycat league so now you have everyone in the L thinking they can play like the Warriors. LOL. Just doesn't work. Like you said when you have 3 of the best shooters to every play and a talented cast surrounding them it works. Or you have a GOAT candidate cyborg who is built like a 6'9" linebacker. Otherwise you need a way to generate a half-court offense that can score when the game always slows down in the playoffs and keep your legs fresh as the season goes on..

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2018, 01:36:37 PM »

Offline LRNation_

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 31
  • Tommy Points: 5
Brad Stevens is highly overrated. Not necessarily terrible, usually adequate, but occasionally much worse. We have been pumping him up for years now. Granted, this team overachieved early in the season but has sadly come crashing back down to Earth the last few months. Some of it is certainly the defects in the roster but I'm starting to see an alarming trend of players not giving 100% effort. The lack of in game adjustments and great probability that they will fall behind by 20 points or more is shockingly concerning. We've all seen Brad leave the scrubs in there while leads balloon up. Is Brad too much of a nice guy? I know Danny loves him but I wonder what it would take for Brad to be fired. I'm not suggesting this as we have no replacement but at some point Brad does deserve some criticism.
So you took the regular season and made this conclusion...
nice, nice
We've never really had a great post player, until we signed Monroe. Since Monroe is out of shape, I want to see how he'll fit into the system once the All-Star Break is over.

Re: Stevens' system and big men
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2018, 02:02:35 PM »

Offline Jamilmac99

  • The Green Kornet
  • Posts: 91
  • Tommy Points: 9
Mostly, I think Stevens has been given a bit of a free pass in regards to criticism. I think much of the current Celtics problems are roster related and not easily fixable. However, when lack of effort becomes a recurring problem we have to look at the coaching. I think overall he has done a fine job but the trends of late are pretty alarming.