Author Topic: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS  (Read 5002 times)

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Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2018, 11:21:27 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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CB forums after a blowout.

ok fine

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2018, 11:29:02 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I thought Stevens was the second only to Popovich in the NBA. Now you're telling me that the roster (which he helped to hand-pick, by the way) is giving him trouble? Come on, man...

The Celtics have won at a historic rate relative to other teams of the same age.  People are overreacting because Brad got so much out of this group early in the season.  The criticism against him would probably be less if we had been on pace to be a 45 win team from the beginning.  The Hayward injury would have been the defining narrative.  Instead he is getting bashed because we were on pace to win 70 games more than one quarter into the season.
No, he's getting bashed because his team stopped playing defense (you know, actual defense that includes rotating under the basket and challenging jump shots), and  because he's refusing to rein in an offense that has degenerated to people running around like headless chickens until someone (usually Marcus Morris) decided to jack up a low-percentage jumper.

Effort and offensive strategy are things you can fix with coaching. But Brad has never held any of his players accountable for being loose cannons on any end of the floor, so there's no use to act all surprised now.

You are cherry picking a rough stretch in the season.  There's no doubt that this group needs to wake up and play with some fight.  I just don't understand why people are using the recent struggle as a reason to say Brad can't coach offense.  Overall he's gotten the most out of the team to this point in the season.  Hopefully we can begin to peak again once the playoffs arrive. 

   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:36:46 AM by Green-18 »

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2018, 11:41:08 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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You are cherry picking a rough stretch in the season.  There's no doubt that this group needs to wake up and play with some fight.  I just don't understand why people are using the recent struggle as a reason to say Brad can't coach offense.  Overall he's gotten the most out of the team to this point in the season.  Hopefully we can begin to peak again once the playoffs arrive.
The tendency of this team to revert to bad offensive basketball without any repercussions from the coach is not new. You're just seeing it exposed now, because guys like Bradley and Olynyk are better shot makers than Rozier and Morris.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2018, 11:47:51 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.

I would say that this strategy has been shown to work given Stevens's track record over the last few years.

Point being, I don't at all think that Stevens has allowed players to run amok on the offensive end.  He would rather Marcus Smart / Marcus Morris / Terry Rozier take jumpers when they get an opening than have the team hunt and hunt and hunt to try to create an opportunity closer to the basket.  Doing so would probably result in turnovers and shot clock violations, which are much more damaging than missed threes.
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Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2018, 11:52:20 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2018, 11:55:50 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.

Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr, to name two.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2018, 12:02:07 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.

Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr, to name two.
Clint Capela and Zaza Pachulia combined have one half-court heave this season, so I'm skeptical about this assertion...
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 01:02:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.

Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr, to name two.
Clint Capela and Zaza Pachulia combined have one half-court heave this season, so I'm skeptical about this assertion...


Aron Baynes has 9 three point "attempts" all year, so I'm not sure things are as "crazy" over here as you make out.

Draymond Green, however, has taken 181 threes this year despite shooting below 30%.

Eric Gordon has attempted 452 threes this year despite shooting barely over 33%.

Bobby Brown has attempted 40 threes in 20 games despite shooting about 28%.

PJ Tucker is shooting below 35% and has attempted 178 threes.

Andre Iguoala has attempted 82 threes despite shooting 23% (!).
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 01:09:20 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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We got whupped by the new look Cavs.  Celtics did not play a good game defensively at all.

Looks to me like we need a big piece to turn things around.  And we're probably not getting much off the buyout scrap heap.  Belinelli and Joe Johnson have already committed to signing with other tams.

Forget about the Cavs for now.  We just need to get to playing better and more consistent basketball.  We need to see more strides from Brown and Tatum.  And maybe hold out hope that Hayward returns to action in a couple of months.  April?

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 01:12:37 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.

Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr, to name two.
Clint Capela and Zaza Pachulia combined have one half-court heave this season, so I'm skeptical about this assertion...


Aron Baynes has 9 three point "attempts" all year, so I'm not sure things are as "crazy" over here as you make out.

Draymond Green, however, has taken 181 threes this year despite shooting below 30%.

Eric Gordon has attempted 452 threes this year despite shooting barely over 33%.

Bobby Brown has attempted 40 threes in 20 games despite shooting about 28%.

PJ Tucker is shooting below 35% and has attempted 178 threes.

Andre Iguoala has attempted 82 threes despite shooting 23% (!).
The difference between Baynes and these guys is that Baynes is a 6.5% career three-point shooter. Nine three point attempts are probably nine too many.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: This is the wrong type of roster for CBS
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 02:23:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Stevens believes in open guys taking shots.  He seems to value his team taking shots that are high percentage in the abstract over trying to get specific guys to take shots that are high percentage for them.
Yes, but this is nonsense. That's how we end up with Baynes shooting wide open threes. You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the NBA other than Stevens who thinks these type of shots are good.

Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr, to name two.
Clint Capela and Zaza Pachulia combined have one half-court heave this season, so I'm skeptical about this assertion...


Aron Baynes has 9 three point "attempts" all year, so I'm not sure things are as "crazy" over here as you make out.

Draymond Green, however, has taken 181 threes this year despite shooting below 30%.

Eric Gordon has attempted 452 threes this year despite shooting barely over 33%.

Bobby Brown has attempted 40 threes in 20 games despite shooting about 28%.

PJ Tucker is shooting below 35% and has attempted 178 threes.

Andre Iguoala has attempted 82 threes despite shooting 23% (!).
The difference between Baynes and these guys is that Baynes is a 6.5% career three-point shooter. Nine three point attempts are probably nine too many.


That's fine.  You think 9 three point attempts has made an impact on the season?

Here are the eyebrow raisers on the Celts roster:


Smart - 211 threes at 29.9%
Semi - 100 threes at 29.0%
Theis - 51 threes at 31.4%
Larkin - 49 threes at 34.7%

Everybody else with more than 10 attempts on the year is shooting over 35%

For reference, 35% on a three point attempt is like shooting 52.5% on a two point attempt.


Would it be ideal for the team if those 411 three point attempts had been taken by other players?  Yes.  The question is whether you think it's realistic that the team could have generated better looks on most of the possessions that ended in those attempts.  From watching the team this year, I think it's fair to say that sometimes when any of those players takes a shot from deep, the ball could have swung one more time and found somebody else.

At the same time, Stevens seems to value a culture where players who are open with a "good" shot take that shot without hesitation, whether they are one of the top players on the team or a role player.  I think you could argue that there is value in a guy like Semi, Theis, or Larkin taking an open three when the ball finds them in that position, even if in the aggregate it's not a really good value shot for that specific player.  It sends the message to everybody else that they should not hesitate to take a shot when one presents itself.

If those players were told not to shoot threes, it would encourage the defense to play much more aggressively on everybody else that's on the floor.  At least if Smart regularly attempts outside shots, it can spook the defense into defending him.

Additionally, if guys like Smart, Larkin, Theis etc were reluctant to shoot from outside, you'd have more possessions ending in shot clock violations or turnovers as the team attempted to find a closer shot that isn't guaranteed to be there, instead of just taking the open three pointer.  This seems especially likely given the lack of quality offensive options when Kyrie is off the floor.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:33:38 PM by PhoSita »
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain