Author Topic: Let's discuss our offense  (Read 3098 times)

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Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2018, 10:56:16 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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My read on our offense is that the ball movement is worse than we have ever seen under Brad Stevens.

When the C's run through sets they usually go through the first option then the play devolves into a post up or an iso. We don't run plays all the way through and don't execute.

I blame Morris for a lot of the ball movement issues and I blame the youth for the lack of execution.
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Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2018, 11:16:14 AM »

Offline Spicoli

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2018, 11:28:22 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2018, 11:40:34 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

This roster with a standard spread pick-and-roll offensive playbook would be bottom 5 in offense. 

That they were above average much of the year and are now a few ticks below the mid-point of the league is a testament to Brad.

It's not a perfect offense, to be sure.  It can get predictable.  But having Kyrie run a million pick and rolls and trying to drive and kick like Houston would not work with this roster.


With all that, Brad is not known as an offensive coach, apart from his excellence at drawing up after-timeout plays.  His bread and butter is the defensive end, and the team is #1 in the league on that side of things.  That's absolutely remarkable when you consider Kyrie's defensive reputation prior to this season and the youth of the roster overall.
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Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2018, 12:00:22 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

This roster with a standard spread pick-and-roll offensive playbook would be bottom 5 in offense. 

That they were above average much of the year and are now a few ticks below the mid-point of the league is a testament to Brad.

It's not a perfect offense, to be sure.  It can get predictable.  But having Kyrie run a million pick and rolls and trying to drive and kick like Houston would not work with this roster.


With all that, Brad is not known as an offensive coach, apart from his excellence at drawing up after-timeout plays.  His bread and butter is the defensive end, and the team is #1 in the league on that side of things.  That's absolutely remarkable when you consider Kyrie's defensive reputation prior to this season and the youth of the roster overall.

The Celtics are a bottom 5 offense since Jan 1. 29 to be exact. They were about 12 in 2017 and now have collapsed to 21. They are in serious trouble on O, let's not apologize or make excuses..

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2018, 12:03:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.
Here's the problem...who do you play if you bench Baynes or Ojeleye or cut their minutes by a lot? Theis getting big minutes? Nader? Yabusele? Monroe who looks lost on both ends of the floor right now? Play everyone else a bunch more minutes?

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2018, 12:23:25 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Three issues with this offense

1. Kyrie and Horford pnr game is getting old. Teams have a good grasp now as to how to defend this

2. Movement/Picks set - very poor.  Guys are standing around instead of moving around causing the other team to work/open lanes.  Hardly anyone also cuts to the basket and when they do, they are not rewarded.

3. In Love with 3 point shooting.  When the team is not hitting the shot...they just keep chucking away. Blame CBS ,blame the leaders blame whoever.....  Jaylen Brown should be taking it to the basket 70 percent of the time. Instead is shooting 70 percent of the time.  Kyrie these days thinks he is Curry and shooting way too frequently.  Al Horford the same... Once the Celts can't buy a bucket via 3, this team is likely to lose

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2018, 12:34:26 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.
Here's the problem...who do you play if you bench Baynes or Ojeleye or cut their minutes by a lot? Theis getting big minutes? Nader? Yabusele? Monroe who looks lost on both ends of the floor right now? Play everyone else a bunch more minutes?

Theis and Monroe should be eating up most of Baynes minutes right now. If Monroe needs acclimation, get working. Acclimate him. Guy is a quality veteran who was just tearing it up for Phoenix. Do your freaking job coaching staff. Design some plays to get him involved.

Semi simply doesnt need to play. Tighten up the rotation if necessary. Play nine guys.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2018, 12:44:35 PM »

Offline CELTICSofBOSTON

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I think we should start Theis.  Have Monroe come in off the bench and just not play Baynes at all.
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Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2018, 12:50:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.
Here's the problem...who do you play if you bench Baynes or Ojeleye or cut their minutes by a lot? Theis getting big minutes? Nader? Yabusele? Monroe who looks lost on both ends of the floor right now? Play everyone else a bunch more minutes?

Theis and Monroe should be eating up most of Baynes minutes right now. If Monroe needs acclimation, get working. Acclimate him. Guy is a quality veteran who was just tearing it up for Phoenix. Do your freaking job coaching staff. Design some plays to get him involved.

Semi simply doesnt need to play. Tighten up the rotation if necessary. Play nine guys.
Tightening up the rotation means a bunch more minutes for other guys. Stevens manages his top 7-8 players minutes very closely. Always has. He likes to keep players lower than 32 MPG and use more players. The use of players like Ojeleye, Baynes, Yabusele, Nader is caused by Danny Ainge giving Stevens so many rookies on the roster, not Stevens because he plays them.

As for Monroe, you can acclimate new players only so fast. Monroe looked clueless versus the Cavs. He'll eventually get bunches of minutes, but when he shows he can do it well.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2018, 12:59:17 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Tightening up the rotation means a bunch more minutes for other guys. Stevens manages his top 7-8 players minutes very closely. Always has. He likes to keep players lower than 32 MPG and use more players. The use of players like Ojeleye, Baynes, Yabusele, Nader is caused by Danny Ainge giving Stevens so many rookies on the roster, not Stevens because he plays them.

As for Monroe, you can acclimate new players only so fast. Monroe looked clueless versus the Cavs. He'll eventually get bunches of minutes, but when he shows he can do it well.
I always thought it was the other way around. Either way, you can keep minutes under 32 for core guys AND maintain a 9-man rotation. Even with Baynes being limited to ~20 mpg, you have at least one guy off the bench right now that can handle 25+. Absolutely no need to ever play Ojeleye, Nader, or Yabusele.

The use of Baynes, btw, is absolutely because he's one of your top 9 guys.
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Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2018, 12:59:39 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

This roster with a standard spread pick-and-roll offensive playbook would be bottom 5 in offense. 

That they were above average much of the year and are now a few ticks below the mid-point of the league is a testament to Brad.

It's not a perfect offense, to be sure.  It can get predictable.  But having Kyrie run a million pick and rolls and trying to drive and kick like Houston would not work with this roster.


With all that, Brad is not known as an offensive coach, apart from his excellence at drawing up after-timeout plays.  His bread and butter is the defensive end, and the team is #1 in the league on that side of things.  That's absolutely remarkable when you consider Kyrie's defensive reputation prior to this season and the youth of the roster overall.

If Alvin Gentry gets fired, i would love to bring him on board as an offensive coordinator. Stevens really needs help on that side of the ball.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2018, 01:03:54 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.
Here's the problem...who do you play if you bench Baynes or Ojeleye or cut their minutes by a lot? Theis getting big minutes? Nader? Yabusele? Monroe who looks lost on both ends of the floor right now? Play everyone else a bunch more minutes?

Baynes should play sparingly. Ojeleye should not play at all IMO. He is not an NBA player at this point. You can't be a 3 and D guy and not be able to hit 3's. Monroe should start, and Theis should back him up. Baynes should be the third big. Increase Tatum, Rozier, and Browns minutes by a bit because they're all young and can handle it. Don't play Nader at all.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2018, 01:24:44 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I hate this dribble hand-off offense. This is one of the most stale, predictable offenses in the NBA. Kyrie is the best dribble penetrator in the league. Stop bringing a pick to him at the top of the key which is so easy to trap. Let him isolate his man up top, collapse the defense and then dish. I mean it's not really rocket science to me. Stevens has failed to draw up plays that collapse the defense.

Aaron Baynes is a terrible offensive player, and so is Ojeleye. They should not be playing the minutes that they are playing. Stevens rotations are terrible.

My guess is if you asked CBS to explain his absurd playing time for Baynes and Ojeleye he would say they are important to the defense which may be the case in Baynes's case but certainly not Ojeleye's. And Baynes D is probably overstated. But their horrific O is simply not a luxury we can afford any longer. Both should be sat barring situational defense.
Here's the problem...who do you play if you bench Baynes or Ojeleye or cut their minutes by a lot? Theis getting big minutes? Nader? Yabusele? Monroe who looks lost on both ends of the floor right now? Play everyone else a bunch more minutes?

Baynes should play sparingly. Ojeleye should not play at all IMO. He is not an NBA player at this point. You can't be a 3 and D guy and not be able to hit 3's. Monroe should start, and Theis should back him up. Baynes should be the third big. Increase Tatum, Rozier, and Browns minutes by a bit because they're all young and can handle it. Don't play Nader at all.

I'd stay start Kyrie/Brown/Tatum/Horford/Monroe. Bench is Rozier/Morris/Theis with Smart or Baynes being the 9th man depending on matchups. That will imporve familiarity and get us prepped for the playoff rotation.

Re: Let's discuss our offense
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2018, 01:38:52 PM »

Offline celtic -_- pride

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We need more dribble penetration by players other than kyrie. Those ball handlers also need enough IQ to know when to finish or dish out to get the best shot. I’m seeing a lot of perimeter passing, isolation for contested jumpers, and a reliance on the pick and roll to create shots.
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