Author Topic: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus  (Read 8784 times)

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Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2018, 10:47:38 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Junk stat. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  Its not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.

I disagree.

It's a good stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court.

Except that RPM explicitly is not a "stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court".  It is a stat that attempts to predict what we will see on the court in the future.

If you want to defend RPM, and whether or not is a good stat, the least you could do is understand what it is and is not.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 11:01:01 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.
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Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2018, 11:19:14 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. Hes not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it hes still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. Well get Hayward back next season so I hope hes traded in the offseason anyway.  Hes still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 11:38:55 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

My question is why not play Theis, Baynes, or Monroe instead of Morris?

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 11:42:56 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Marcus is def the worse out of the Morris twins

Lazy player. Doesnt move enough at both ends

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 01:06:54 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. Hes not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it hes still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. Well get Hayward back next season so I hope hes traded in the offseason anyway.  Hes still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.
the problem is that we're the team that needs the veteran depth on a cheap contract

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 01:54:31 AM »

Offline Irish Stew

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He is what he has been: a useful rotation player who is a starter for a weak or injured team. Next year, if he hasn't been traded in the offseason, he'll be a bench player with modest minutes and an expiring contract that could be used in a trade.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 02:01:51 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. He’s not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it he’s still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. We’ll get Hayward back next season so I hope he’s traded in the offseason anyway.  He’s still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.

Same here. While I do actually like his game, when he's out there with "Not Channing", Brown, and either Kyrie or Rozier, is there a worse passing 1-4 combination/lineup in the league?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:20:27 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 02:40:11 AM »

Online LilRip

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Id believe it.

I dont know if hes still injured or not but he hasnt impressed me this year. When hes on, its a blessing. God knows this team needs points. But when hes not scoring, hes a big negative for me. Hes a decent enough on-ball defender but seems to be a really poor help defender and rebounder.

This may be an unpopular take but I think we should try to pick up Frye (assuming hes bought out) and play him over MM. Frye cant manufacture points in ISO but hes a deadeye shooter who can set decent enough screens. Hes not a great rebounder but is probably a bit better than Morris.

If Semi improves his shooting (not counting on it), thatd be huge for us IMO.
 
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Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 06:28:26 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I actually thought he played decent yesterday at times.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 09:02:38 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Marcus is def the worse out of the Morris twins

Lazy player. Doesnt move enough at both ends

yup ....i always liked the other as better player ....may e its just me.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 03:37:01 PM »

Offline TheBigTicket23

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His minutes should be cut. It really feels like he hurts this team... already said before he should be traded at the deadline, just before the deadline he had a couple of good games but now he is back to hurting us again.

Brad should see this pretty soon.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 03:59:57 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I don't think Marcus Morris is our problem.  He has not been quite as good as I hoped but it seems his injury is holding him back some.  He has been pretty good in January and February.  I see him settling in as a bench role alongside Smart and Rozier and helping the team down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't know or care whether real plus minus is a good stat or not.  Morris is what he is.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 04:23:03 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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He's also T-1st: Assaulting Potential Step-Fathers, so it kind of evens out.  I cut and pasted that straight from Basketball Reference

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 04:33:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Are there really 336 players in the NBA?