Author Topic: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus  (Read 8313 times)

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Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
« on: February 10, 2018, 07:13:03 PM »

Offline Chris22

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http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

I really don't feel like Morris is helping the team.
He seems to be just a volume shooter who does not defend well.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:48:32 AM by Chris22 »

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 08:16:46 PM »

Offline apc

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He is a temp.
not here for the long run.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 08:50:21 PM »

Offline Chris22

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He is a temp.
not here for the long run.

I feel he is hurting us now.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 08:54:40 PM »

Online gouki88

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He seems to have 2 differently modes.

In some games he’s the perfect bench spark, hitting threes and defending attentively.

Then for no reason in particular, he takes it upon himself to play like Kobe (without the freakish ability) on one end and Harden on the other.

Very polarising player

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 10:16:26 PM »

Offline mctyson

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He seems to have 2 differently modes.

In some games he’s the perfect bench spark, hitting threes and defending attentively.

Then for no reason in particular, he takes it upon himself to play like Kobe (without the freakish ability) on one end and Harden on the other.

Very polarising player

He was brought in to defend Lebron.  That is it.  He was the best in the NBA at it last year.  6'8", can move laterally and is strong/tough.

He is here for that.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 10:43:16 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.


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Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 11:15:09 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I feel like this article here should be required reading for anyone who references RPm when they talk about a player's abilities.

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Here's a small blurb from the article:

Quote
Real Plus-Minus is meant to be predictive. It’s interested in how well a player will perform in the future, rather than what he did in the past. RPM’s emphasis on prediction explains why it uses some of the tricks it does.

For instance, I mentioned earlier that RPM uses data from previous seasons in its priors. If my primary goal is to evaluate how well a player did this season, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use data from other seasons. However, if I want to predict what will happen in the future, the older numbers can help me differentiate between players who have been consistently good (and will likely keep being good) and players who are merely going through a hot streak (and will likely regress to their mean).

This has a number of implications. One is that RPM tends to be skeptical of player improvements (or regressions) that exceed what is expected for a player that age. This season, Anthony Davis improved much faster than most 20-21 year old playes. People who watch basketball know that Davis is super talented and accelerated growth is expected from him. However, Real Plus-Minus doesn’t understand this and suspects that Davis’ numbers might be a random blip. As a result, Real Plus-Minus is liable to underestimate Davis’s impact this season9.

On a less technical note, RPM’s focus on prediction makes it a poor way to determine who should get end-of-season awards. I think this is an important point to emphasize because ESPN does exactly this in its introduction to RPM, using it to argue that Taj Gibson is a better candidate than Jamal Crawford for 6th Man of the Year. RPM is optimized to predict the future, not evaluate the past.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 12:03:21 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 12:12:32 AM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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I'm not watching every game. Seems to me, whenever I watch, he hits a lot of shots that keeps the momentum going for the Celtics. Guess I have to watch more games. Don't understand how he can rate anywhere near that low. If anything I would have expected him to be high on the list given how is used.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 12:14:16 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 12:18:22 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

This is horribly fallacious reasoning.

RPM has been well-discussed here and elsewhere. Its flaws are not something one can dispute, unless you think Tyus Jones and Robert Covington are better than Lebron James, and those two plus Spencer Dinwiddie, Gary Harris and Fred Van Vleet are better than Kevin Durant.


Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 12:18:24 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.

I disagree.

It's a good stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 12:24:56 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

This is horribly fallacious reasoning.

RPM has been well-discussed here and elsewhere. Its flaws are not something one can dispute, unless you think Tyus Jones and Robert Covington are better than Lebron James, and those two plus Spencer Dinwiddie, Gary Harris and Fred Van Vleet are better than Kevin Durant.

It is a general stat to be sure, but I like it.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 12:52:50 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Thus far, save for a few games MM has been so-so.   I hope he gets 100% which I think we have never seen, he was getting there then fell on his back.

Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 09:45:23 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Morris is not very good.
I would rather give his minutes to Monroe or Theis.