Author Topic: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?  (Read 1367 times)

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Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 02:53:16 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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No, it wasn't lateral move. Maybe you think that Hood, Hill, Clarkson and Nance are mediocre players but Isaiah and Jae have been bad players. So even from that perspective the Cavs got better. Hood adds a very good perimeter shooter, the exact kind of player who James gets the most out of. Hill is by far the best guard defender they have had on the roster this year. Nance provides defense and athleticism to their front court, somebody who could maybe guard Durant a little. Clarkson is pretty much an upgrade version of what IT had been this season. A better though still awful defender, and a more efficient though only average offensive player.

In terms of chemistry, they had to do something. This at least shows Lebron they are going for it, and may motivate him to put full effort instead of 60% effort. They may not have much more of a shot at the GSW, but they have improved their ECF chances and gives them some pieces going forward. 

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 03:21:18 PM »

Offline playdream

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No, it wasn't lateral move. Maybe you think that Hood, Hill, Clarkson and Nance are mediocre players but Isaiah and Jae have been bad players. So even from that perspective the Cavs got better. Hood adds a very good perimeter shooter, the exact kind of player who James gets the most out of. Hill is by far the best guard defender they have had on the roster this year. Nance provides defense and athleticism to their front court, somebody who could maybe guard Durant a little. Clarkson is pretty much an upgrade version of what IT had been this season. A better though still awful defender, and a more efficient though only average offensive player.

In terms of chemistry, they had to do something. This at least shows Lebron they are going for it, and may motivate him to put full effort instead of 60% effort. They may not have much more of a shot at the GSW, but they have improved their ECF chances and gives them some pieces going forward.
You are only looking at it on paper just like Bakleys do, in reality they just lost the chance that "come playoff time all of their veterans focus on winning and absolutely flip the switch", now they simply don't have the talent level and experience to contend, and only 30 game left and bad coaching just ensured it, and make no mistake, Lebron isn't 31 anymore and can't dominate in both ends the whole game anymore, and now no one is going to bell him out
This is just like the Kyrie trade, they panicked and choose the desperation move, which will just backfire badly on them,again

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 03:48:26 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I wouldn't quite say it's lateral.  They did better themselves for the long-term with or without Lebron. 

However, I think all this instant analysis by some of the media & some posters on here that this puts them right at the top of the Eastern Conference is overblown & based a lot on the allure of potential of Clarkson & Nance.  I'm not sure how much this will push the needle for them this season although it probably moves the needle for Motivated Lebron to show up again. Chemistry will take time & I do think what the new guys can provide is being overblown by the media.  I do think it was take a superhuman effort by him if they're going to go back to the Finals, though.

If I'm a Celtics fan, I'm looking at mid-June right now with baited breath after what's transpired at the trade deadline.  I think, barring injuries, there is an excellent shot the Celtics make it out of the East now.


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Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 04:14:03 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I am really surprised to see people so positive about this trade for the Cavs future. Not only did they give up a 1st round pick, but over the next two years, the Cavs are north of $100 Million without including Lebron's salary or Rodney Hood's upcoming deal. If they are able to keep both players, they may push $150 Million without even taking into consideration luxury tax dollars. With just Hood and no Lebron, that is a very weak roster with little potential to compete.

In Shumpert and Crowder, they traded away just over $18M next season and $7.8M in 19-20. However, just in Hill and Clarkson, they are taking in approximately $31.5M over both of the next two seasons. And if they decide to keep Hood, that number skyrockets.

I understand that this is good for camaraderie and that the Cavs now have a puncher's chance of reaching the Finals, but over the long haul, this seems like a horrible way to start the future. Hey, at least they have the BKN pick, because if Lebron leaves, that is the only high pick they will have for the forseeable future. All the while paying an enormous amount of money to a pretty mediocre team.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 04:19:03 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I thought Cavs did alright. They definitely made the roster younger which was a big issue for them. They were the odlest team in the league. Also, almost all those contracts are trade-able and the players young enough to field an okay team post Lebron. They cap is still poop but they would have been a lot worse imo if they had just kept status quo and Lebron left.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 09:01:18 AM »

Offline cman88

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how much does coaching come into this? we were told all summer from the media not to get too excited about the celtics because of their massive overhaul. They came out the gate firing. but alot of that is on Brad stevens. we were also told how IT was a lateral move in cleveland to Kyrie and that crowder would improve their defense. But Lue had no idea how to use them.

Now we are supposed to believe a team that gutted its roster 2 months before the playoffs is going to gel immediately. Thats a big task for Tyronn Lue who has yet to show me he is more than a cheerleader for lebron.

i've been told to believe over and over that stars win in the NBA not role players. yet with cleveland, I am supposed to believe that roleplayers will win...


Cavs may have raised their floor, because these less talented players will probably bow to lebron and do whatever they are asked. and it isnt out of the realm for Lebron to drag a team to the finals.

But they've lowered their ceiling.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 09:17:51 AM »

Offline Green-18

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how much does coaching come into this? we were told all summer from the media not to get too excited about the celtics because of their massive overhaul. They came out the gate firing. but alot of that is on Brad stevens. we were also told how IT was a lateral move in cleveland to Kyrie and that crowder would improve their defense. But Lue had no idea how to use them.

Now we are supposed to believe a team that gutted its roster 2 months before the playoffs is going to gel immediately. Thats a big task for Tyronn Lue who has yet to show me he is more than a cheerleader for lebron.

i've been told to believe over and over that stars win in the NBA not role players. yet with cleveland, I am supposed to believe that roleplayers will win...


Cavs may have raised their floor, because these less talented players will probably bow to lebron and do whatever they are asked. and it isnt out of the realm for Lebron to drag a team to the finals.

But they've lowered their ceiling.

It's not about believing that the roleplayers will win.  It all comes back to a motivated LeBron James.  The Cavs have enough athleticism and shooting to get through the East.  They just need a couple of role players to contribute on a nightly basis.  There's enough depth for it to being a different guy every night.  As I mentioned earlier in this thread, LeBron was able to take the Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie or Kevin Love in the NBA Finals.  That Warriors group was far superior to the current Celtics and Raptors.

As for coaching, it has always been a major factor when a veteran team faces LeBron in the playoffs.  Rick Carlisle, Gregg Popovich, and Steve Kerr are the only coaches to beat LeBron since he left Cleveland for the first time.  Carlisle and Popovich pulled it off with less raw talent.  Kerr deserves credit for transforming the Warriors from a poor passing team to the best in the NBA by far.




Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 09:32:12 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Talent-wise, it’s a step back.  But, they weren’t close to maximizing that talent.  The fit and locker room sucked, and Lebron wasn’t buying in.

They’re nowhere close to GSW, but they should be able to play passable defense while getting in line behind Lebron.

I wish there had been a way for us to get Hood. He’s a solid 6th man type.


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Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2018, 09:39:39 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Talent-wise, it’s a step back.  But, they weren’t close to maximizing that talent.  The fit and locker room sucked, and Lebron wasn’t buying in.

They’re nowhere close to GSW, but they should be able to play passable defense while getting in line behind Lebron.

What players did Cleveland give up that are more talented than the players they brought in?

I keep seeing people say this, but I'm not seeing it.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2018, 09:39:39 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I am really surprised to see people so positive about this trade for the Cavs future. Not only did they give up a 1st round pick, but over the next two years, the Cavs are north of $100 Million without including Lebron's salary or Rodney Hood's upcoming deal. If they are able to keep both players, they may push $150 Million without even taking into consideration luxury tax dollars. With just Hood and no Lebron, that is a very weak roster with little potential to compete.

In Shumpert and Crowder, they traded away just over $18M next season and $7.8M in 19-20. However, just in Hill and Clarkson, they are taking in approximately $31.5M over both of the next two seasons. And if they decide to keep Hood, that number skyrockets.

I understand that this is good for camaraderie and that the Cavs now have a puncher's chance of reaching the Finals, but over the long haul, this seems like a horrible way to start the future. Hey, at least they have the BKN pick, because if Lebron leaves, that is the only high pick they will have for the forseeable future. All the while paying an enormous amount of money to a pretty mediocre team.

I don't believe that short term cap issues will hinder the Cavs rebuilding effort, especially if the Brooklyn pick lands them in the top 3 of the draft.  It only becomes a factor if they have an opportunity to sign elite free agents, which we all know wont happen.

Their current roster puts them at roughly $102 Million for next season if LeBron leaves.  The only major financial decision will be whether or not to pay Rodney Hood.  They will probably move Korver after the season.  If they are hoping to sign Hood and avoid the luxury tax then Clarkson will need to be traded again.  I can't imagine anyone taking on Hill, J.R. Smith, or Thompson.

None of this is an ideal rebuilding scenario for the Cavs but it could be much worse.  At least they have Brooklyn 18 and their own first round picks (both top 10 protected) in 2019 and 2020.


Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2018, 09:59:57 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Talent-wise, it’s a step back.  But, they weren’t close to maximizing that talent.  The fit and locker room sucked, and Lebron wasn’t buying in.

They’re nowhere close to GSW, but they should be able to play passable defense while getting in line behind Lebron.

What players did Cleveland give up that are more talented than the players they brought in?

I keep seeing people say this, but I'm not seeing it.

Talent-wise, IT is by far the best guy in the deal. Wade has a ton of talent, Crowder has the talent to be an above-average starter.


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Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2018, 10:22:45 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Talent-wise, it’s a step back.  But, they weren’t close to maximizing that talent.  The fit and locker room sucked, and Lebron wasn’t buying in.

They’re nowhere close to GSW, but they should be able to play passable defense while getting in line behind Lebron.

What players did Cleveland give up that are more talented than the players they brought in?

I keep seeing people say this, but I'm not seeing it.

Talent-wise, IT is by far the best guy in the deal. Wade has a ton of talent, Crowder has the talent to be an above-average starter.

Crowder isn't better than any of the players Cleveland brought in.

Thomas is washed up. Last year's IT is never returning. He's a bench player now. A bench player that may be the worst defender in the entire NBA.

Wade is old. You'll be lucky to get 1 'throwback' performance in a 7 games series from him. Other than that, he's usually a net negative due his lack of effort and ability on defense.

The players they brought in are not only better players at their current levels, but don't have the egos that the guys they sent out did.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2018, 10:36:52 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think that all the press people are thinking that LeBron is a leader and will whip these guys into shape is a gross overestimation of his capabilities.  I think he is great player but a leader he is not.  He is more of play by example guy than a rock solid leader and face it, locker room wise he is not a leader.   The situation in CLE festered because he was not a leader.   Doing stunts like putting out a babyseat for IT and the like was not solid leadership.    Most of the titles he has won, another player lead the team at clutch moments down the stretch because he does not always have it in him in the big moments and will cut and run if his team gets down with an excuse like cramps.

So I think all this is hype, a lot of these guys put up numbers on bad teams which is easy if your a primary of secondary option.   I do not think these guys will do so in CLE because LeBron will have the ball most of time.   

Also, a number of them are dubious defenders like Hood.   

Lastly, they will have time to play together and then KLove will come back and mess up their chemistry.

Love for LeBron makes the media blind.   I do not think this helps them as much as his sychophants say it will.  He will put up great numbers as usual, but I have doubts about his ability to whip team mates into shape or lead them.

Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2018, 11:29:07 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Going to find out tomorrow
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks The Cavs just made a lateral move?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2018, 11:29:19 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Only way to really tell, for me - is to meet them in the playoffs.

We had a good shot before their trades and I still feel that way today.

Kyrie's going to have a TON to prove.
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