Poll

Do You Think Kyrie Is A Top 10 Player In The NBA Today?

Yes!
30 (50%)
No. He's Top-15 though.
22 (36.7%)
No. He's Top-20 though.
8 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?  (Read 3931 times)

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Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2018, 03:38:39 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.

Because Embiid is this generations AC Green.
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Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2018, 03:41:49 PM »

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Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2018, 03:51:54 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
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Cousins

Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too. 

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2018, 04:00:49 PM »

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Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2018, 04:26:00 PM »

Online Moranis

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Lebron
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Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
I get he missed 2 years, but for this purpose this seems like a bit of a stretch.  Not saying 75 games in 1+ years is anything to write home about, but the most recent seasons do seem to be more critical.  That said, Embiid has played in just 44 games this year.  Cousins will finish at 48 and Davis has played in 51, so Embiid still lags behind.

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2018, 04:27:39 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Lebron
Durant
Curry
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Harden
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Cousins

Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far.  I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history.  Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid. 

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2018, 04:41:28 PM »

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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
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Cousins

Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far.  I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history.  Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2018, 09:31:15 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins

Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far.  I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history.  Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.

Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2018, 02:34:30 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins

Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.

George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin

All in no particular order

TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10.  He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD.  Definitely ahead of Cousins.  Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health.  Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far.  I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history.  Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.

Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.

Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
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Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2018, 09:02:19 PM »

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So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far

1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant

Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.

Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful.  ??? 
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Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

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Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2018, 09:35:28 PM »

Offline gouki88

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So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far

1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant

Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.

Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful.  ???
That is a truly awful lost. KAT 5 spots ahead of KD is hilarious. Bleacher Report being B/R again

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2018, 09:37:55 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far

1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant

Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.

Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful.  ???
That is a truly awful lost. KAT 5 spots ahead of KD is hilarious. Bleacher Report being B/R again

The fact that Butler is above Curry, Davis, KD.. and the fact that Westbrook, while he is a superstar, is above KD, Davis among others.... take it away Stephen A!

2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2018, 09:42:15 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far

1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant

Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.

Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful.  ???

It uses two metrics that are either outright bad (RPM) or suspect (PER, which has been discussed ad nauseam, and tends to over-value PFs and Cs).

The other two are Win Shares, which is in the "not insane" category, and something called TPA (Total Points Added), which I've never heard of.

But overall the idea of a "meta-metric" is a good one, in the sense that it uses more available information from a number of different, but flawed in different ways, metrics.

Kyrie is 14th.

I think if there's a flaw in that list, it's that Durant and Curry are a bit under-valued, but metrics will do that because they evaluate how those guys are contributing given the talent around them - put either of those guys on lesser teams and they would be metrics monsters. And it therefore elevates guys like Westbrook and Giannis because they are more in the solo-act category.

I don't see any other obvious flaws, I mean, a lot of this is debatable past a point...what bothers you about the list?

Except for maybe the T-Wolves guys. But to be honest, how many of us have watched a lot of T-Wolves games. They get no attention. I would be open to the possibility that KAT is that good, or thereabouts, but hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.

Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2018, 10:09:59 PM »

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Except for maybe the T-Wolves guys. But to be honest, how many of us have watched a lot of T-Wolves games. They get no attention. I would be open to the possibility that KAT is that good, or thereabouts, but hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.

I don’t watch the Twolves much either, but it’s hard to imagine they’ve got two top-6 players.  Plus, they’ve got a guy who scored 24 ppg last year, the 12th-ranked player in RPM (lol) and some solid role players. Shouldn’t they be more of a threat?

I’m skeptical of averaging various metrics. Garbage results from one can lead to illegitimate results.


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Re: Is Kyrie now a Legit Top-10 Player?
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2018, 10:25:38 PM »

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The only problem I have is Lillard and Towns being in the top 10. The order is kinda ridiculous but the other 8 players are definitely top 10 players.