Tremendous outcome for us tonight

[celticsclay]

Ok I like the moves the Cavs made if you just want to see a team make moves. Impact moves for the playoffs, I don't see it. Hood may be the best but none of these guys moves the needle. This makes the Cavs better prepared for when Bron leaves, not to win the East this year.

I think if we can get Joe Johnson or Bellineli we are still a formidable, but everyone will always see the Cavs as having the best team no matter who they sign.

They are absolutely better prepared to win the East this year.  Hill and Hood is a much better starting backcourt than injured IT and Smith, and they still have Smith now on the bench along with Clarkson.  That is a significantly improved 4 man backcourt rotation.  Nance provides defense and toughness that they weren't getting from Frye and better allows them to withstand the Love absence.  When Love is back is the clear #2, which is when he is at his best on that team.  None of the players acquired need the ball in their hand to be successful, so the offense can now run through James, which is also when the Cavs are at their best.  Additionally, Hill and Hood are among the best transition players in the entire league and the Cavs love to run (I think they have the 3rd most transition attempts this year, but aren't all that successful because of who was on the team).  The Cavs transition offense might even be better than it was when Irving was on the team given just how good Hill, Hood, and Nance are at running.  Couple that with Hill leading the league in 3 point shooting and the Cavs now have 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the world (Hill and Korver who is 12th this year but 7th all time), which is a perfect compliment to James' drive and dish style of play. 

The Cavs are much better situated to win the East this year then they were before the trades.  It isn't close.  I think you could even make a reasonable argument that the current team (if Love is healthy and they gel, and those are both VERY BIG IF'S) would have a better chance to beat the Warriors then the team that played them last year.  They are younger, more athletic, better defensively, are better shooters, and a better fit around James then the one that played the Warriors in the Finals last year.

Great analysis. They got role players from lottery teams. Better shooting but this isn't 28 yr old Bron, this is 33 yr old Bron. I want to see who will play defense NOT in the regular season but in the playoffs. They forfeited experience for young legs.

George Hill has played in 83 playoff games.  For comparison, Love has played in 42.  Hill's 83 games is ahead of all but James, Smith, and Korver on the team and the only player they traded yesterday that had more was Wade (and Hill more than doubles every other player traded away).  Now obviously Hood has only played in 11 playoff games (and wasn't a starter) and Clarkson and Nance haven't played in any, but they actually got a highly experienced veteran to play PG for them.

Moranis, I know one of your big talking points the last month was that you were confident IT was going to return to being an elite scorer and near all-star player, but he just wasn't healed yet. That was one of your keys to the Cavs finding success. Now that he is gone, do you feel less optimistic about them reaching that higher level?

I think, if they can gel this team has far more overall potential then the one from yesterday, even if IT would have healed.  They had more problems then just IT and this trade shored up most of them.  And while Hill isn't as good as a healthy IT overall, I think he is a much better fit for the Cavs than IT was.  Hill is still a plus defender (not elite, but good), is a better 3 point shooter than IT, plays much better off the ball than IT, and is a better transition player than IT.  IT is obviously far greater at creating baskets, especially out of nothing, than Hill is, but the Cavs don't need that and they could have easily reverted back into the your turn/my turn style of offense they played long stretches of the last 3 seasons with James and Irving.  During those stretches they often ignored Love, who is a terrible matchup for most teams to guard and is a huge advantage for the Cavs. 

As I said in another thread, if Love heals up and they all gel, I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back (the year Love and Irving missed the Finals), and they might even be able to eclipse that team and be the best Cavs team ever (even if they don't win the title that might still be true, as this years Warriors team is a lot better than the Warriors team the Cavs beat in the Finals to win the title).

Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned (although I don't know the odds from the first year very well). So vegas views them as a lot more vulnerable team than the last few years where they were sometimes -250 to win the east and 3-1 to win the chip. By just about all odds and metrics the team last year with Kyrie, Love, Lebron and a better playing Smith and Thompson was a stronger team, so this is a fascinating example of unbridled enthusiasm.

[Moranis]

Ok I like the moves the Cavs made if you just want to see a team make moves. Impact moves for the playoffs, I don't see it. Hood may be the best but none of these guys moves the needle. This makes the Cavs better prepared for when Bron leaves, not to win the East this year.

I think if we can get Joe Johnson or Bellineli we are still a formidable, but everyone will always see the Cavs as having the best team no matter who they sign.

They are absolutely better prepared to win the East this year.  Hill and Hood is a much better starting backcourt than injured IT and Smith, and they still have Smith now on the bench along with Clarkson.  That is a significantly improved 4 man backcourt rotation.  Nance provides defense and toughness that they weren't getting from Frye and better allows them to withstand the Love absence.  When Love is back is the clear #2, which is when he is at his best on that team.  None of the players acquired need the ball in their hand to be successful, so the offense can now run through James, which is also when the Cavs are at their best.  Additionally, Hill and Hood are among the best transition players in the entire league and the Cavs love to run (I think they have the 3rd most transition attempts this year, but aren't all that successful because of who was on the team).  The Cavs transition offense might even be better than it was when Irving was on the team given just how good Hill, Hood, and Nance are at running.  Couple that with Hill leading the league in 3 point shooting and the Cavs now have 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the world (Hill and Korver who is 12th this year but 7th all time), which is a perfect compliment to James' drive and dish style of play. 

The Cavs are much better situated to win the East this year then they were before the trades.  It isn't close.  I think you could even make a reasonable argument that the current team (if Love is healthy and they gel, and those are both VERY BIG IF'S) would have a better chance to beat the Warriors then the team that played them last year.  They are younger, more athletic, better defensively, are better shooters, and a better fit around James then the one that played the Warriors in the Finals last year.

Great analysis. They got role players from lottery teams. Better shooting but this isn't 28 yr old Bron, this is 33 yr old Bron. I want to see who will play defense NOT in the regular season but in the playoffs. They forfeited experience for young legs.

George Hill has played in 83 playoff games.  For comparison, Love has played in 42.  Hill's 83 games is ahead of all but James, Smith, and Korver on the team and the only player they traded yesterday that had more was Wade (and Hill more than doubles every other player traded away).  Now obviously Hood has only played in 11 playoff games (and wasn't a starter) and Clarkson and Nance haven't played in any, but they actually got a highly experienced veteran to play PG for them.

Moranis, I know one of your big talking points the last month was that you were confident IT was going to return to being an elite scorer and near all-star player, but he just wasn't healed yet. That was one of your keys to the Cavs finding success. Now that he is gone, do you feel less optimistic about them reaching that higher level?

I think, if they can gel this team has far more overall potential then the one from yesterday, even if IT would have healed.  They had more problems then just IT and this trade shored up most of them.  And while Hill isn't as good as a healthy IT overall, I think he is a much better fit for the Cavs than IT was.  Hill is still a plus defender (not elite, but good), is a better 3 point shooter than IT, plays much better off the ball than IT, and is a better transition player than IT.  IT is obviously far greater at creating baskets, especially out of nothing, than Hill is, but the Cavs don't need that and they could have easily reverted back into the your turn/my turn style of offense they played long stretches of the last 3 seasons with James and Irving.  During those stretches they often ignored Love, who is a terrible matchup for most teams to guard and is a huge advantage for the Cavs. 

As I said in another thread, if Love heals up and they all gel, I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back (the year Love and Irving missed the Finals), and they might even be able to eclipse that team and be the best Cavs team ever (even if they don't win the title that might still be true, as this years Warriors team is a lot better than the Warriors team the Cavs beat in the Finals to win the title).

Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned (although I don't know the odds from the first year very well). So vegas views them as a lot more vulnerable team than the last few years where they were sometimes -250 to win the east and 3-1 to win the chip. By just about all odds and metrics the team last year with Kyrie, Love, Lebron and a better playing Smith and Thompson was a stronger team, so this is a fascinating example of unbridled enthusiasm.

Statistically Smith is better this year than he was last year.  He is shooting better from both 2 and 3 (same from line).  he is rebounding more, he is passing more.  he is shooting over a shot less per game and thus is scoring a bit less, but Smith has actually played better this year then he did last year.  Per minute, Thompson is virtually an identical player as last year.  He has a slightly lower FG% (though is a lot better from the line), he is rebounding only slightly worse and is passing, shot blocking, etc. at about the same rates.  He is playing about 10 minutes less per game and thus his totals are much worse, but his actual on floor production is nearly identical.

If the Cavs gel, I just think they are a much deeper and more balanced team overall with Hill, Hood, Clarkson, and Smith in the backcourt and James, Korver, Green, Love, Thompson, and Nance in the front court.  That is a pretty good, balanced, and deep top 10 players.  Last year's Cavs just weren't nearly as deep with Deron and Derrick Williams, Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson all logging key minutes (and those guys all had their moments, but those guys, along with Korver, shouldn't be the rotational bench of a title team either). 

[celticsclay]

Ok I like the moves the Cavs made if you just want to see a team make moves. Impact moves for the playoffs, I don't see it. Hood may be the best but none of these guys moves the needle. This makes the Cavs better prepared for when Bron leaves, not to win the East this year.

I think if we can get Joe Johnson or Bellineli we are still a formidable, but everyone will always see the Cavs as having the best team no matter who they sign.

They are absolutely better prepared to win the East this year.  Hill and Hood is a much better starting backcourt than injured IT and Smith, and they still have Smith now on the bench along with Clarkson.  That is a significantly improved 4 man backcourt rotation.  Nance provides defense and toughness that they weren't getting from Frye and better allows them to withstand the Love absence.  When Love is back is the clear #2, which is when he is at his best on that team.  None of the players acquired need the ball in their hand to be successful, so the offense can now run through James, which is also when the Cavs are at their best.  Additionally, Hill and Hood are among the best transition players in the entire league and the Cavs love to run (I think they have the 3rd most transition attempts this year, but aren't all that successful because of who was on the team).  The Cavs transition offense might even be better than it was when Irving was on the team given just how good Hill, Hood, and Nance are at running.  Couple that with Hill leading the league in 3 point shooting and the Cavs now have 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the world (Hill and Korver who is 12th this year but 7th all time), which is a perfect compliment to James' drive and dish style of play. 

The Cavs are much better situated to win the East this year then they were before the trades.  It isn't close.  I think you could even make a reasonable argument that the current team (if Love is healthy and they gel, and those are both VERY BIG IF'S) would have a better chance to beat the Warriors then the team that played them last year.  They are younger, more athletic, better defensively, are better shooters, and a better fit around James then the one that played the Warriors in the Finals last year.

Great analysis. They got role players from lottery teams. Better shooting but this isn't 28 yr old Bron, this is 33 yr old Bron. I want to see who will play defense NOT in the regular season but in the playoffs. They forfeited experience for young legs.

George Hill has played in 83 playoff games.  For comparison, Love has played in 42.  Hill's 83 games is ahead of all but James, Smith, and Korver on the team and the only player they traded yesterday that had more was Wade (and Hill more than doubles every other player traded away).  Now obviously Hood has only played in 11 playoff games (and wasn't a starter) and Clarkson and Nance haven't played in any, but they actually got a highly experienced veteran to play PG for them.

Moranis, I know one of your big talking points the last month was that you were confident IT was going to return to being an elite scorer and near all-star player, but he just wasn't healed yet. That was one of your keys to the Cavs finding success. Now that he is gone, do you feel less optimistic about them reaching that higher level?

I think, if they can gel this team has far more overall potential then the one from yesterday, even if IT would have healed.  They had more problems then just IT and this trade shored up most of them.  And while Hill isn't as good as a healthy IT overall, I think he is a much better fit for the Cavs than IT was.  Hill is still a plus defender (not elite, but good), is a better 3 point shooter than IT, plays much better off the ball than IT, and is a better transition player than IT.  IT is obviously far greater at creating baskets, especially out of nothing, than Hill is, but the Cavs don't need that and they could have easily reverted back into the your turn/my turn style of offense they played long stretches of the last 3 seasons with James and Irving.  During those stretches they often ignored Love, who is a terrible matchup for most teams to guard and is a huge advantage for the Cavs. 

As I said in another thread, if Love heals up and they all gel, I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back (the year Love and Irving missed the Finals), and they might even be able to eclipse that team and be the best Cavs team ever (even if they don't win the title that might still be true, as this years Warriors team is a lot better than the Warriors team the Cavs beat in the Finals to win the title).

Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned (although I don't know the odds from the first year very well). So vegas views them as a lot more vulnerable team than the last few years where they were sometimes -250 to win the east and 3-1 to win the chip. By just about all odds and metrics the team last year with Kyrie, Love, Lebron and a better playing Smith and Thompson was a stronger team, so this is a fascinating example of unbridled enthusiasm.

Statistically Smith is better this year than he was last year.  He is shooting better from both 2 and 3 (same from line).  he is rebounding more, he is passing more.  he is shooting over a shot less per game and thus is scoring a bit less, but Smith has actually played better this year then he did last year.  Per minute, Thompson is virtually an identical player as last year.  He has a slightly lower FG% (though is a lot better from the line), he is rebounding only slightly worse and is passing, shot blocking, etc. at about the same rates.  He is playing about 10 minutes less per game and thus his totals are much worse, but his actual on floor production is nearly identical.

If the Cavs gel, I just think they are a much deeper and more balanced team overall with Hill, Hood, Clarkson, and Smith in the backcourt and James, Korver, Green, Love, Thompson, and Nance in the front court.  That is a pretty good, balanced, and deep top 10 players.  Last year's Cavs just weren't nearly as deep with Deron and Derrick Williams, Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson all logging key minutes (and those guys all had their moments, but those guys, along with Korver, shouldn't be the rotational bench of a title team either).

Sometimes you really abuse statistics man. As someone that follows the cavs and presumably has watched their games, I find it very unbelievable that you think Smith is playing better this year than last year. Here is one of the main Cavs writers calling it the worst season of his career 2 weeks ago

https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/957143696889339909

There is about 20 pages on the Jr Smith thread saying the same thing. Why derail the conversation with statistical nonsense? It just makes for worse discussion...

[Moranis]

Ok I like the moves the Cavs made if you just want to see a team make moves. Impact moves for the playoffs, I don't see it. Hood may be the best but none of these guys moves the needle. This makes the Cavs better prepared for when Bron leaves, not to win the East this year.

I think if we can get Joe Johnson or Bellineli we are still a formidable, but everyone will always see the Cavs as having the best team no matter who they sign.

They are absolutely better prepared to win the East this year.  Hill and Hood is a much better starting backcourt than injured IT and Smith, and they still have Smith now on the bench along with Clarkson.  That is a significantly improved 4 man backcourt rotation.  Nance provides defense and toughness that they weren't getting from Frye and better allows them to withstand the Love absence.  When Love is back is the clear #2, which is when he is at his best on that team.  None of the players acquired need the ball in their hand to be successful, so the offense can now run through James, which is also when the Cavs are at their best.  Additionally, Hill and Hood are among the best transition players in the entire league and the Cavs love to run (I think they have the 3rd most transition attempts this year, but aren't all that successful because of who was on the team).  The Cavs transition offense might even be better than it was when Irving was on the team given just how good Hill, Hood, and Nance are at running.  Couple that with Hill leading the league in 3 point shooting and the Cavs now have 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the world (Hill and Korver who is 12th this year but 7th all time), which is a perfect compliment to James' drive and dish style of play. 

The Cavs are much better situated to win the East this year then they were before the trades.  It isn't close.  I think you could even make a reasonable argument that the current team (if Love is healthy and they gel, and those are both VERY BIG IF'S) would have a better chance to beat the Warriors then the team that played them last year.  They are younger, more athletic, better defensively, are better shooters, and a better fit around James then the one that played the Warriors in the Finals last year.

Great analysis. They got role players from lottery teams. Better shooting but this isn't 28 yr old Bron, this is 33 yr old Bron. I want to see who will play defense NOT in the regular season but in the playoffs. They forfeited experience for young legs.

George Hill has played in 83 playoff games.  For comparison, Love has played in 42.  Hill's 83 games is ahead of all but James, Smith, and Korver on the team and the only player they traded yesterday that had more was Wade (and Hill more than doubles every other player traded away).  Now obviously Hood has only played in 11 playoff games (and wasn't a starter) and Clarkson and Nance haven't played in any, but they actually got a highly experienced veteran to play PG for them.

Moranis, I know one of your big talking points the last month was that you were confident IT was going to return to being an elite scorer and near all-star player, but he just wasn't healed yet. That was one of your keys to the Cavs finding success. Now that he is gone, do you feel less optimistic about them reaching that higher level?

I think, if they can gel this team has far more overall potential then the one from yesterday, even if IT would have healed.  They had more problems then just IT and this trade shored up most of them.  And while Hill isn't as good as a healthy IT overall, I think he is a much better fit for the Cavs than IT was.  Hill is still a plus defender (not elite, but good), is a better 3 point shooter than IT, plays much better off the ball than IT, and is a better transition player than IT.  IT is obviously far greater at creating baskets, especially out of nothing, than Hill is, but the Cavs don't need that and they could have easily reverted back into the your turn/my turn style of offense they played long stretches of the last 3 seasons with James and Irving.  During those stretches they often ignored Love, who is a terrible matchup for most teams to guard and is a huge advantage for the Cavs. 

As I said in another thread, if Love heals up and they all gel, I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back (the year Love and Irving missed the Finals), and they might even be able to eclipse that team and be the best Cavs team ever (even if they don't win the title that might still be true, as this years Warriors team is a lot better than the Warriors team the Cavs beat in the Finals to win the title).

Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned (although I don't know the odds from the first year very well). So vegas views them as a lot more vulnerable team than the last few years where they were sometimes -250 to win the east and 3-1 to win the chip. By just about all odds and metrics the team last year with Kyrie, Love, Lebron and a better playing Smith and Thompson was a stronger team, so this is a fascinating example of unbridled enthusiasm.

Statistically Smith is better this year than he was last year.  He is shooting better from both 2 and 3 (same from line).  he is rebounding more, he is passing more.  he is shooting over a shot less per game and thus is scoring a bit less, but Smith has actually played better this year then he did last year.  Per minute, Thompson is virtually an identical player as last year.  He has a slightly lower FG% (though is a lot better from the line), he is rebounding only slightly worse and is passing, shot blocking, etc. at about the same rates.  He is playing about 10 minutes less per game and thus his totals are much worse, but his actual on floor production is nearly identical.

If the Cavs gel, I just think they are a much deeper and more balanced team overall with Hill, Hood, Clarkson, and Smith in the backcourt and James, Korver, Green, Love, Thompson, and Nance in the front court.  That is a pretty good, balanced, and deep top 10 players.  Last year's Cavs just weren't nearly as deep with Deron and Derrick Williams, Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson all logging key minutes (and those guys all had their moments, but those guys, along with Korver, shouldn't be the rotational bench of a title team either).

Sometimes you really abuse statistics man. As someone that follows the cavs and presumably has watched their games, I find it very unbelievable that you think Smith is playing better this year than last year. Here is one of the main Cavs writers calling it the worst season of his career 2 weeks ago

https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/957143696889339909

There is about 20 pages on the Jr Smith thread saying the same thing. Why derail the conversation with statistical nonsense? It just makes for worse discussion...

Abuse statistics?  I stated facts.  JR Smith is statistically a better overall player this year then he was last year.  The actual stats and his rates, and even many of his advanced metrics support that statement.  And to top it off, he has already played more games this year then he did last year.  Now 2 seasons ago (the title season), Smith was a significantly better player than he has been the last two seasons.

[celticsclay]

Ok I like the moves the Cavs made if you just want to see a team make moves. Impact moves for the playoffs, I don't see it. Hood may be the best but none of these guys moves the needle. This makes the Cavs better prepared for when Bron leaves, not to win the East this year.

I think if we can get Joe Johnson or Bellineli we are still a formidable, but everyone will always see the Cavs as having the best team no matter who they sign.

They are absolutely better prepared to win the East this year.  Hill and Hood is a much better starting backcourt than injured IT and Smith, and they still have Smith now on the bench along with Clarkson.  That is a significantly improved 4 man backcourt rotation.  Nance provides defense and toughness that they weren't getting from Frye and better allows them to withstand the Love absence.  When Love is back is the clear #2, which is when he is at his best on that team.  None of the players acquired need the ball in their hand to be successful, so the offense can now run through James, which is also when the Cavs are at their best.  Additionally, Hill and Hood are among the best transition players in the entire league and the Cavs love to run (I think they have the 3rd most transition attempts this year, but aren't all that successful because of who was on the team).  The Cavs transition offense might even be better than it was when Irving was on the team given just how good Hill, Hood, and Nance are at running.  Couple that with Hill leading the league in 3 point shooting and the Cavs now have 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the world (Hill and Korver who is 12th this year but 7th all time), which is a perfect compliment to James' drive and dish style of play. 

The Cavs are much better situated to win the East this year then they were before the trades.  It isn't close.  I think you could even make a reasonable argument that the current team (if Love is healthy and they gel, and those are both VERY BIG IF'S) would have a better chance to beat the Warriors then the team that played them last year.  They are younger, more athletic, better defensively, are better shooters, and a better fit around James then the one that played the Warriors in the Finals last year.

Great analysis. They got role players from lottery teams. Better shooting but this isn't 28 yr old Bron, this is 33 yr old Bron. I want to see who will play defense NOT in the regular season but in the playoffs. They forfeited experience for young legs.

George Hill has played in 83 playoff games.  For comparison, Love has played in 42.  Hill's 83 games is ahead of all but James, Smith, and Korver on the team and the only player they traded yesterday that had more was Wade (and Hill more than doubles every other player traded away).  Now obviously Hood has only played in 11 playoff games (and wasn't a starter) and Clarkson and Nance haven't played in any, but they actually got a highly experienced veteran to play PG for them.

Moranis, I know one of your big talking points the last month was that you were confident IT was going to return to being an elite scorer and near all-star player, but he just wasn't healed yet. That was one of your keys to the Cavs finding success. Now that he is gone, do you feel less optimistic about them reaching that higher level?

I think, if they can gel this team has far more overall potential then the one from yesterday, even if IT would have healed.  They had more problems then just IT and this trade shored up most of them.  And while Hill isn't as good as a healthy IT overall, I think he is a much better fit for the Cavs than IT was.  Hill is still a plus defender (not elite, but good), is a better 3 point shooter than IT, plays much better off the ball than IT, and is a better transition player than IT.  IT is obviously far greater at creating baskets, especially out of nothing, than Hill is, but the Cavs don't need that and they could have easily reverted back into the your turn/my turn style of offense they played long stretches of the last 3 seasons with James and Irving.  During those stretches they often ignored Love, who is a terrible matchup for most teams to guard and is a huge advantage for the Cavs. 

As I said in another thread, if Love heals up and they all gel, I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back (the year Love and Irving missed the Finals), and they might even be able to eclipse that team and be the best Cavs team ever (even if they don't win the title that might still be true, as this years Warriors team is a lot better than the Warriors team the Cavs beat in the Finals to win the title).

Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned (although I don't know the odds from the first year very well). So vegas views them as a lot more vulnerable team than the last few years where they were sometimes -250 to win the east and 3-1 to win the chip. By just about all odds and metrics the team last year with Kyrie, Love, Lebron and a better playing Smith and Thompson was a stronger team, so this is a fascinating example of unbridled enthusiasm.

Statistically Smith is better this year than he was last year.  He is shooting better from both 2 and 3 (same from line).  he is rebounding more, he is passing more.  he is shooting over a shot less per game and thus is scoring a bit less, but Smith has actually played better this year then he did last year.  Per minute, Thompson is virtually an identical player as last year.  He has a slightly lower FG% (though is a lot better from the line), he is rebounding only slightly worse and is passing, shot blocking, etc. at about the same rates.  He is playing about 10 minutes less per game and thus his totals are much worse, but his actual on floor production is nearly identical.

If the Cavs gel, I just think they are a much deeper and more balanced team overall with Hill, Hood, Clarkson, and Smith in the backcourt and James, Korver, Green, Love, Thompson, and Nance in the front court.  That is a pretty good, balanced, and deep top 10 players.  Last year's Cavs just weren't nearly as deep with Deron and Derrick Williams, Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson all logging key minutes (and those guys all had their moments, but those guys, along with Korver, shouldn't be the rotational bench of a title team either).

Sometimes you really abuse statistics man. As someone that follows the cavs and presumably has watched their games, I find it very unbelievable that you think Smith is playing better this year than last year. Here is one of the main Cavs writers calling it the worst season of his career 2 weeks ago

https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/957143696889339909

There is about 20 pages on the Jr Smith thread saying the same thing. Why derail the conversation with statistical nonsense? It just makes for worse discussion...

Abuse statistics?  I stated facts.  JR Smith is statistically a better overall player this year then he was last year.  The actual stats and his rates, and even many of his advanced metrics support that statement.  And to top it off, he has already played more games this year then he did last year.  Now 2 seasons ago (the title season), Smith was a significantly better player than he has been the last two seasons.

With how many statistics are available you can use some and omit others to make just about any argument. If the local beat reporter is calling this the worst season of his career, and their is a season long thread talking about how awful he is playing on cavs forums this season, and his defense has been apathetic and awful this seasons, it's not really debatable that he has been absolutely awful. To say he may have some marginally better offensive statistics this season than last year when he had a serious injury that caused him to miss 40 games is really beside the point that he is awful.

Furthermore, you totally ignored the meat of the post, which is aside from about a 10 hour period, the Cavs have their worst odds to win the East right now of any time over the last several years. If they have their best team since lebron returned, why is that? Interestingly you were touting the odds in the preseason that had them as favorites to win the east, so you obviously think they are valuable to use in arguments. I would like to know what you are seeing that causes you to have a much more optimistic view than linesmakers.

[Moranis]

Cavs went from 15/1 to 9/1 to win the title (not just east but whole thing) on this site (and the Warriors odds invariably got worse).  https://onlinegambling.lv/sportsbetting/headlines/2018-nba-title-odds-trade-deadline/

Here is an article from nbafutures (which relies a great deal on Bovada), analyzing the Cavs moves (though I couldn't find updated odds from Bovada yet)
http://www.nbafutures.com/771/cavaliers-trade-for-rodney-hood-and-george-hill.htm

Of note from that article:

"That is one heck of a rotation although it is lacking in size a bit. Still, in today’s wing dominated NBA this is the type of athletic team that can compete with anybody. There will be an adjustment period, but this is a team that I like a lot more than the one I have seen throughout this season. I think they are the top contender in the Eastern Conference after these trades and Boston is behind the eight ball right now."



So in fact, the Cavs aren't they lowest they have been, they are in fact a lot better off today then they were yesterday, which is the exact point I've been making.  The current iteration of the Cavs is a lot better than the iteration we've seen all season and they are back to being a pretty heavy favorite to come out of the East (of course pending how they actually look together). 

And the reality is, most experts have pegged Toronto as the team most likely to challenge Cleveland, not Boston, yet Boston's odds are better in Vegas, in a large part because Vegas odds aren't based on anything more than trying to drive bets equally on both sides and the Celtics are a lot sexier pick then the Raptors. 

[celticsclay]

Cavs went from 15/1 to 9/1 to win the title (not just east but whole thing) on this site (and the Warriors odds invariably got worse).  https://onlinegambling.lv/sportsbetting/headlines/2018-nba-title-odds-trade-deadline/

Here is an article from nbafutures (which relies a great deal on Bovada), analyzing the Cavs moves (though I couldn't find updated odds from Bovada yet)
http://www.nbafutures.com/771/cavaliers-trade-for-rodney-hood-and-george-hill.htm

Of note from that article:

"That is one heck of a rotation although it is lacking in size a bit. Still, in today’s wing dominated NBA this is the type of athletic team that can compete with anybody. There will be an adjustment period, but this is a team that I like a lot more than the one I have seen throughout this season. I think they are the top contender in the Eastern Conference after these trades and Boston is behind the eight ball right now."



So in fact, the Cavs aren't they lowest they have been, they are in fact a lot better off today then they were yesterday, which is the exact point I've been making.  The current iteration of the Cavs is a lot better than the iteration we've seen all season and they are back to being a pretty heavy favorite to come out of the East (of course pending how they actually look together). 

And the reality is, most experts have pegged Toronto as the team most likely to challenge Cleveland, not Boston, yet Boston's odds are better in Vegas, in a large part because Vegas odds aren't based on anything more than trying to drive bets equally on both sides and the Celtics are a lot sexier pick then the Raptors.

So you are intentionally ignoring what I say (twice) and changing the subject? This is from my original post "Cleveland is currently +160 to win the east and 10-1 to win the championship. Aside from briefly being +200 to win the east following their loss to Orlando, these are the worst odds I have seen since James returned"

I readily acknowledged that there was one other time in the last two years that the Cavs odds to win the east were worse than they are today. Which was a day to day and half between the Magic loss and the morning of the trade deadline. I even acknowledged it again in my followup post. Now that we have got past that point that i already started, for the third time lets try to get you to answer this question without bringing in irrelevant noise to the argument. Maybe I am not being clear so I will keep this to 2 clear related points:

Moranis says =  "I think this could be the best Cavs team since James 1st year back"
CelticsClay says = "They have the word odds to win the east of any time in the last 2 years of the regular season aside from a brief period in the last 3 days. Why are they so much worse odds now than these other years?

Some answers to this question that actually address it:

= I think they are better now cause hood/clarkson/nance is extremely underrated
= I think Kyrie Irving is extremely overrated and makes a team worse
= I think Lue has really improved as a coach this year
= I have completely reversed my view points and don't think stars win in the playoffs anymore and now I like good role players, which they have
= I think cedi osman is a future star and will now play major minutes
= I did not realize they were a much bigger favorite in years past, now that i think about it they probably are not as good as last year (hell freezes over)



 

[footey]

Cavs went from 15/1 to 9/1 to win the title (not just east but whole thing) on this site (and the Warriors odds invariably got worse).  https://onlinegambling.lv/sportsbetting/headlines/2018-nba-title-odds-trade-deadline/

Here is an article from nbafutures (which relies a great deal on Bovada), analyzing the Cavs moves (though I couldn't find updated odds from Bovada yet)
http://www.nbafutures.com/771/cavaliers-trade-for-rodney-hood-and-george-hill.htm

Of note from that article:

"That is one heck of a rotation although it is lacking in size a bit. Still, in today’s wing dominated NBA this is the type of athletic team that can compete with anybody. There will be an adjustment period, but this is a team that I like a lot more than the one I have seen throughout this season. I think they are the top contender in the Eastern Conference after these trades and Boston is behind the eight ball right now."



So in fact, the Cavs aren't they lowest they have been, they are in fact a lot better off today then they were yesterday, which is the exact point I've been making.  The current iteration of the Cavs is a lot better than the iteration we've seen all season and they are back to being a pretty heavy favorite to come out of the East (of course pending how they actually look together). 

And the reality is, most experts have pegged Toronto as the team most likely to challenge Cleveland, not Boston, yet Boston's odds are better in Vegas, in a large part because Vegas odds aren't based on anything more than trying to drive bets equally on both sides and the Celtics are a lot sexier pick then the Raptors.

So who do you favor now, Celtics vs Cavs in a 7 game series?

[Moranis]

Cavs went from 15/1 to 9/1 to win the title (not just east but whole thing) on this site (and the Warriors odds invariably got worse).  https://onlinegambling.lv/sportsbetting/headlines/2018-nba-title-odds-trade-deadline/

Here is an article from nbafutures (which relies a great deal on Bovada), analyzing the Cavs moves (though I couldn't find updated odds from Bovada yet)
http://www.nbafutures.com/771/cavaliers-trade-for-rodney-hood-and-george-hill.htm

Of note from that article:

"That is one heck of a rotation although it is lacking in size a bit. Still, in today’s wing dominated NBA this is the type of athletic team that can compete with anybody. There will be an adjustment period, but this is a team that I like a lot more than the one I have seen throughout this season. I think they are the top contender in the Eastern Conference after these trades and Boston is behind the eight ball right now."



So in fact, the Cavs aren't they lowest they have been, they are in fact a lot better off today then they were yesterday, which is the exact point I've been making.  The current iteration of the Cavs is a lot better than the iteration we've seen all season and they are back to being a pretty heavy favorite to come out of the East (of course pending how they actually look together). 

And the reality is, most experts have pegged Toronto as the team most likely to challenge Cleveland, not Boston, yet Boston's odds are better in Vegas, in a large part because Vegas odds aren't based on anything more than trying to drive bets equally on both sides and the Celtics are a lot sexier pick then the Raptors.

So who do you favor now, Celtics vs Cavs in a 7 game series?

the Cavs would be heavily favored in a 7 game series if they get any sort of cohesion down the stretch

[green_bballers13]

Unfortunately Cavs are still favored b/c of Lebron. The Celtics should give them a much better series this year. Toronto should be really close as well.

[celticsclay]

Unfortunately Cavs are still favored b/c of Lebron. The Celtics should give them a much better series this year. Toronto should be really close as well.

I will admit I am pretty scared of Toronto this year. I think their young guys give them a different level than their previous playoff flameouts.