Author Topic: CAVSMAGEDDON!!  (Read 4420 times)

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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #135 on: February 12, 2018, 11:12:58 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last yearís IT > this yearís Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. Thereís no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.

Actually, Roy wrote "Last yearís IT > this yearís Love" and you responded "no he wasn't".

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but if there's confusion, it's because you wrote something you apparently don't believe.
He wrote that in response to my statement that Love was a better player than IT.  There is only possibly confusion if you don't read all of the posts in the quote.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #136 on: February 12, 2018, 03:05:27 PM »

Offline Big333223

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last yearís IT > this yearís Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. Thereís no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.

Actually, Roy wrote "Last yearís IT > this yearís Love" and you responded "no he wasn't".

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but if there's confusion, it's because you wrote something you apparently don't believe.
He wrote that in response to my statement that Love was a better player than IT.  There is only possibly confusion if you don't read all of the posts in the quote.

I'll refer you to my previous post.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #137 on: February 14, 2018, 04:11:48 PM »

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Anyone who thinks the Cavs are suddenly MUCH better due to their recent trades has been duped again by LeBron. That due is so calculating.

He stopped trying weeks ago. His team was playing horribly because of HIM. Did everyone forget his putrid effort these past few weeks?

He wanted to force the Cavs into a trade. And now heís playing inspired, team ball again. You think he wasnít going balls out the last two games to try and embarrass IT and also to show that only HE can turn these new guys into winners?  He gave more effort and moved the ball more than heís ever done. Not that stupid ISO LeBron and everyone else just get ready for a catch and shoot jumper offense theyíve been running for weeks.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #138 on: February 14, 2018, 04:15:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance. 
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #139 on: February 14, 2018, 04:19:09 PM »

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Anyone who thinks the Cavs are suddenly MUCH better due to their recent trades has been duped again by LeBron. That due is so calculating.

He stopped trying weeks ago. His team was playing horribly because of HIM. Did everyone forget his putrid effort these past few weeks?

He wanted to force the Cavs into a trade. And now heís playing inspired, team ball again. You think he wasnít going balls out the last two games to try and embarrass IT and also to show that only HE can turn these new guys into winners?  He gave more effort and moved the ball more than heís ever done. Not that stupid ISO LeBron and everyone else just get ready for a catch and shoot jumper offense theyíve been running for weeks.

I think they are better, but its for obvious reasons.

1. Hill doesn't mind being sidekick to Lebron. Thomas did. And Thomas wasn't that good.
2. Clarkson is actually playing games. Shumpert didn't.
3. Nance is a much more versatile and active player than Frye.
4. Hood is a better scorer than Crowder.

They simply upgraded their roster. I still think their play is likely to come down to earth. I still think the Celtics can beat them in a 7 game series.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #140 on: February 14, 2018, 04:43:56 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

wait you are saying Lebron shouldn't have tried on defense cause he was playing with bad defensive players?

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #141 on: February 14, 2018, 05:03:30 PM »

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Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

wait you are saying Lebron shouldn't have tried on defense cause he was playing with bad defensive players?

I couldnít stop laughing at that one too.

Oh and Smith goes from being ďvery inconsistentĒ to shooting 80% his last two games?  So thatís why LeBron didnít want to play hard before? Because Smith was inconsistent? Iím confused.

LeBron enjoyed standing at half court watching his teammates go 4 on 5 at times. Of course they were going to look horrible. But now heís winning because the new players are so good? Sure some of them may be, but LeBron has intentionally flipped the switch again because it suits him and his freaking ego.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #142 on: February 14, 2018, 05:16:19 PM »

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In the meanwhile, the Cavs go on scoring ~120 a game, and Brad is still mulling how to integrate Greg Monroe on a team that has just 3 other rotation-caliber big men. It'd be funny if it wasn't a little sad.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #143 on: February 14, 2018, 05:42:53 PM »

Offline footey

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone. 

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #144 on: February 14, 2018, 05:50:42 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #145 on: February 14, 2018, 05:53:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

This is the biggest overreaction I have seen to two regular season games on my 10+ years on the forum.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #146 on: February 14, 2018, 05:58:26 PM »

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Yeah, the Kyrie trade counts in his annual evaluation.  The Cavs are worse now than they were last year.


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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #147 on: February 14, 2018, 06:09:07 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #148 on: February 14, 2018, 07:11:36 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Just because the Lakers arenít a top heavy team in all star players isnít their fault.  They are part of the reason the Lakers have won some more games than many expected.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #149 on: February 14, 2018, 07:19:43 PM »

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Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Just because the Lakers arenít a top heavy team in all star players isnít their fault.  They are part of the reason the Lakers have won some more games than many expected.

I agree. In fact Clarkson was the best player on the Lakers this year. And you could argue that Hill was the best player of the Kings. So it shouldn't be that surprising they are playing so well now they have a well-defined role on the team.

Clarkson just wasn't part of the Lakers' plans from the beginning. Didn't matter how well he performed. Same goes for Randle.
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