Author Topic: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?  (Read 1057 times)

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Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 04:08:01 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't think it is fair to say that both parties do this.  Both parties are willing to dip into deficit spending but only one party recklessly cuts taxes while at the same time increasing spending (Reagan, Bush, and now Trump have all done this).

This is where I am at. I honestly don't understand now what it means to be a conservative Republican - I mean, it really just means socially conservative, right? Which is a bummer since I am socially liberal and hate wasting money. I certainly didn't vote for Trump - and may black Jesus save the souls of those who did - but I was at least hoping for some semblance of a balanced budget with an all-Republican faction.

The whole "fiscal conservative when out of power, blow up deficits from both ends while in it" shtick is more of a political long game kind of thing. Republicans are right now creating the deficits that they will run against when Democrats are back in power.  Just like the deficits from W's wars, tax cuts and programs, which exploded after the economy crashed, were used to fuel the rise of the Tea Party and wipe out the anti-W wave of 06 and Obama wave of 08. It's not a complicated playbook; it doesn't need to be as long as voters keep falling for it.

Definitely this.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 04:13:13 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Nope, this has just proven to me that it has always been about a veiled racism. They are only fiscally conservative when it comes to giving minorities any small amount help; otherwise, it is spend all the money you have (or don't have) and then blame the democrats when they are left to pick up the pieces.

And what's worse is that we sit back and take it. Enough of this "they go low we go high" crap. As usual, it takes The West Wing to get it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVX0TBLB3RU

Mike

You understand that this is a bi-partisan deal, right? Both parties are taking huge piles of money to throw around.  Republicans just arenít pretending anymore.

Completely. The Dems at least try to pay for it and don't hand it all back to the people who need it the least.

Mike

This is Congress, going out to dinner:

Ralph: We need to keep a strict budget. Just one drink, and the table can share an appetizer.

Donna: Ok, but then you canít have the porterhouse.

Ralph: Fine, but no side salads.

(Waiter comes):

Ralph: Iíll have the shrimp cocktail, crab cakes, porterhouse, lobster, one each of the sides, and two pieces of cake.

Donna: Iíll have the same. And bring over a few rounds of margaritas.

(Finishes meal).

Ralph: How are we paying for this?

Donna: I donít know. Letís put it on the credit card and we can figure it out later.

Ralph: Great! In the meantime, letís stiff the waiter, raid the kitchen to make sure no illegals are working in there, and cut back on the free ketsup and sugar packets that freeloaders take. Theyíre driving up prices.

Rinse, repeat.


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Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 04:35:08 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Federal  ;)spending ;)does ;)not ;)have ;)to ;)be ;)balanced

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 04:35:22 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Wednesday Republicans announced a plan that would add $500 billion spending over two years. They also suspended the debt ceiling until 2019. Republicans also passed a tax law that would add more than $1 trillion to the debt over a decade. Spend, spend, spend! What happen to the tea party?

That tax bill raising the deficit by a trillion was a projection that is not looking so goood for the CBO right now
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Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 04:45:39 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Republicans are only fiscally conservative when they have to pile on the other party. Otherwise, they revert to political realism.

Holy Hypocrisy Batman!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvIKHHFOqy4


Couldn't this be said of the Dems, too.   Whichever party is not in power complains about the one in power. 

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 04:46:02 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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This would be true if we were Greece and didn't produce or control our own currency.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 04:52:12 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Federal  ;)spending ;)does ;)not ;)have ;)to ;)be ;)balanced

Right. We do need to keep an eye on debt relative to GDP, though.

But sure, letís just print more money. Why not just cut everyone a tax free $1 million check while weíre at it? That would be awesome for the economy.


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Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 04:58:56 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Federal  ;)spending ;)does ;)not ;)have ;)to ;)be ;)balanced

Right. We do need to keep an eye on debt relative to GDP, though.

But sure, letís just print more money. Why not just cut everyone a tax free $1 million check while weíre at it? That would be awesome for the economy.
Your austerity mindset is incongruent with modern economic theory.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 05:01:01 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Federal  ;)spending ;)does ;)not ;)have ;)to ;)be ;)balanced

Right. We do need to keep an eye on debt relative to GDP, though.

But sure, letís just print more money. Why not just cut everyone a tax free $1 million check while weíre at it? That would be awesome for the economy.
Your austerity mindset is incongruent with modern economic theory.

Lol. I feel like Iím talking to the Harvard kid in Good Will Hunting.  Any more theory youíd like to regurgitate without understanding it?


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Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 09:14:56 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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One impact of the tax cut and subsequent spending increase is that this increased borrowing by the Government (in the form of issuing Treasury Bonds) resulted in an increase of the yield on the bonds.  This not only make future debt more expensive but also makes servicing past debt more expensive.  The cost of the tax cut will not be $1.5T, it will be much more when all this increased interest is figured in.  We are making America weaker financially, not greater.

Trump campaigned that he was going to cut the corporate tax rate but also close loopholes, in particular, the carried interest break for hedge fund managers.  Not only did the tax reform not close any of the existing loopholes, but they created more with the pass through nonsense.

It absolutely defies economic logic to initiate increased deficit spending during a time of economic expansion.  Interest and inflation are very likely to result (nothing is for sure).  The middle class loses again.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 09:20:26 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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How can a politician of any kind be "fiscally conservative?" The only way I know of to buy votes is with cash.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 09:53:38 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Federal  ;)spending ;)does ;)not ;)have ;)to ;)be ;)balanced

Right. We do need to keep an eye on debt relative to GDP, though.

But sure, letís just print more money. Why not just cut everyone a tax free $1 million check while weíre at it? That would be awesome for the economy.

Yes, because I'm sure we all would be thrilled with paying $20,000 for a McDonald's hamburger, and another $5,000 to get that burger with cheese.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 09:55:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Truth be told, I haven't found the Republican party to be fiscally conservative at any point in my voting lifetime.

Libertarians are the only true fiscal conservatives.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 08:53:25 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wow, what a stat: during 8 years of Obama, mostly during recovery from the worst economic crisis in generations, we had $7.2 trillion in total deficits.

By the White House's own budget estimates, under 8 years of Trump, starting during an economic peak and making very optimistic economic projections, we would get...$7.2 trillion in total deficits*.



*6.5 trillion in their estimates for the proposed budget plus the $680 billion they estimate the new budget deal adds on top.

Re: I thought Republicans where fiscal conservative?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 09:02:52 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I've never been terribly worried about debt, if I didn't complain about it when democrats increased the debt I'm not willing to complain about it now.

What I am curious about is how this effects republican voting. Would adding to the debt like this convince true fiscal conservatives to vote democrat (probably not) or sit out the next election?

People can complain all they want about issues like this, but if they are still going to vote in the same way regardless then it doesn't really matter.
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