Author Topic: Globe: C’s want own 1st round picks for larger future move, Prefer Tyreke to Lou  (Read 6404 times)

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Offline droopdog7

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Of course, we'd rather Tyreke than Lou.
He has great size, is a better defender, 3 years younger.

We use Lou as a bluff to Memphis that we have a choice and to lower his price.
If others don't inflate it that is. But 1st rounders are hard to come by ATM and we have a late one to give.

Keeping the pick for a larger future move is just media talk to raise its price.
That 28th or 29th pick is available IMO.
Age likely isn't a factor in this decision.  And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.  I don't see how Evans, Rozier, and Smart all co-exist but maybe all three won't be here?

Anyway, the biggest reason for Evans over Williams is salary. 

Offline tonydelk

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Of course, we'd rather Tyreke than Lou.
He has great size, is a better defender, 3 years younger.

We use Lou as a bluff to Memphis that we have a choice and to lower his price.
If others don't inflate it that is. But 1st rounders are hard to come by ATM and we have a late one to give.

Keeping the pick for a larger future move is just media talk to raise its price.
That 28th or 29th pick is available IMO.
Age likely isn't a factor in this decision.  And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.  I don't see how Evans, Rozier, and Smart all co-exist but maybe all three won't be here?

Anyway, the biggest reason for Evans over Williams is salary.

Salary is huge but Evans plays Defense.  He is a Stevens type player.  I am an Evans guy over Lou.  Evans will not disrupt the Defense at all and can play the 1-3 and switch on all 3 spots on Defense as well.  With the Clippers a borderline playoff team that pick can be decent but they also can be bad enough if they don't sign anyone next year that we will only get 2nd round picks.  If a pick is moved I'd prefer it be that one.

Offline Snakehead

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And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.

Don't agree with this since Tyreke improved his shooting.  In fact, with size Tyreke is better set up to play off ball for the Celtics next to Kyrie and not disrupt things because he has size and plays defense.

Beyond that, the Celtics actually need a guy who can handle the ball and make a play anyways.  The thing about Evans is he has size and can even cover a SF in a pinch, vs Lou Williams who can't really cover anyone but definitely not anyone outside of the PG spot.  Especially in a situation where Smart was to be moved as he has been doing that for the team.  Another quality ball handler who is a threat to score as well would be a huge aid to the offense.
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Offline Snakehead

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Personally I put much more stock in Himmelsbach.  Woj trumping up trade coverage for clicks right now, which is his job.  Not much else to talk about right now:

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/960932399138910209

Quote
@AdamHimmelsbach

Sources have told me this rumor has grown over time and was never true. But, Cs do have some interest in Tyreke now at the right price.
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Online celticinorlando

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Either one. Boston needs wing scoring off the bench.

Globe Article
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2018, 01:21:11 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Either one. Boston needs wing scoring off the bench.
Neither one.  Boston has Morris, just picked up Monroe and could possibly see Hayward this season.  That sounds like the shooting that the team is missing.

Re: Globe Article
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2018, 01:27:05 PM »

Online celticinorlando

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Either one. Boston needs wing scoring off the bench.
Neither one.  Boston has Morris, just picked up Monroe and could possibly see Hayward this season.  That sounds like the shooting that the team is missing.

Second unit needs consistent scoring from outside. Williams or Evans provides that. Morris has shown so far he is just a piece...not a difference maker. Monroe will help with rebounding and inside scoring for sure...but the second unit needs a spot up shooter to go with Rozier.

Now from what they are saying the buyout market could be really strong...so Boston might just wait until then to grab someone for next to nothing
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 01:35:27 PM by celticinorlando »

Offline droopdog7

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And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.

Don't agree with this since Tyreke improved his shooting.  In fact, with size Tyreke is better set up to play off ball for the Celtics next to Kyrie and not disrupt things because he has size and plays defense.

Beyond that, the Celtics actually need a guy who can handle the ball and make a play anyways.  The thing about Evans is he has size and can even cover a SF in a pinch, vs Lou Williams who can't really cover anyone but definitely not anyone outside of the PG spot.  Especially in a situation where Smart was to be moved as he has been doing that for the team.  Another quality ball handler who is a threat to score as well would be a huge aid to the offense.
I think I heard somewhere that Evan's shooting has trended down as the season has worn on.  Are we sure we trust him as a shooter in the post season?  I'm not. 

My basic point that Evans needs the ball much more than Williams and that would take a much bigger adjustment from those around him (assuming smart and rozier stay put).  I don't think that's in dispute, though as you say, one can argue that we need more of that.

As far as defense, not too concerned.  Evan definitely a better individual defender but I am comfortable that we could absorb Williams and still be fine (especially if smart is still here).

Offline Snakehead

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And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.

Don't agree with this since Tyreke improved his shooting.  In fact, with size Tyreke is better set up to play off ball for the Celtics next to Kyrie and not disrupt things because he has size and plays defense.

Beyond that, the Celtics actually need a guy who can handle the ball and make a play anyways.  The thing about Evans is he has size and can even cover a SF in a pinch, vs Lou Williams who can't really cover anyone but definitely not anyone outside of the PG spot.  Especially in a situation where Smart was to be moved as he has been doing that for the team.  Another quality ball handler who is a threat to score as well would be a huge aid to the offense.
I think I heard somewhere that Evan's shooting has trended down as the season has worn on.  Are we sure we trust him as a shooter in the post season?  I'm not. 



Evans is shooting 39% from 3 on the year to Williams 38%.

Evans has a 28% Usage vs 29% for Lou Williams

Evans has 48% Assisted rate (meaning he is passed to with an assist counted for his score) to 34% for Lou Williams (meaning he's better and more robust off ball as a scorer).


As far as touches per game and dribbles per touch, they are about the same.

All this can depend on team factors and other things but just some stats to show I think you are off on that. 

Beyond the fact that again, Evans can play SG or SF which means he is better off ball flat out by how rosters and rotations have to work.  We are playing Kyrie big minutes and Lou Williams is no SG on defense.  That's the baseline you need to think off of here because that isn't changing.

And bottom line from me: neither one is going to be on the Celtics anyways.  Get excited about Monroe because he will be good.  We already got our help.
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Offline KGBirdBias

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I'm beginning to believe Ainge is playing a game here. Remember last year when everyone thought we were trading for Ibaka or PJ Tucker. We were all upset that we didn't make any moves.

I think he's driving the price up and floating names or potential deals so the Cavs or Wiz will keep making moves. I don't think we do anything at the deadline if it involves giving up picks.

Smart, Rozier aren't going anywhere. A buyout is all we may see coming to Boston. Ainge wants to be ready to pounce when AD says "get me outta here".

Online knuckleballer

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Does anyone know if players on two way contracts can be traded?  I'm wondering if Allen or Bird could be used to sweeten the pot for Evans.  I doubt they can, but I'm curious to what the rules are.

Offline mef730

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And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.

Don't agree with this since Tyreke improved his shooting.  In fact, with size Tyreke is better set up to play off ball for the Celtics next to Kyrie and not disrupt things because he has size and plays defense.

Beyond that, the Celtics actually need a guy who can handle the ball and make a play anyways.  The thing about Evans is he has size and can even cover a SF in a pinch, vs Lou Williams who can't really cover anyone but definitely not anyone outside of the PG spot.  Especially in a situation where Smart was to be moved as he has been doing that for the team.  Another quality ball handler who is a threat to score as well would be a huge aid to the offense.
I think I heard somewhere that Evan's shooting has trended down as the season has worn on.  Are we sure we trust him as a shooter in the post season?  I'm not. 


Evans's shooting has trended down, with January particularly weak.

October (seven games): shooting .425 from the field, .414 3P
November: .521/.421
December: .458/.431
January: .402/.290

This is also the first season in the last four that he has played more than 26 games.

Mike

Offline GreenEnvy

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I'm beginning to believe Ainge is playing a game here. Remember last year when everyone thought we were trading for Ibaka or PJ Tucker. We were all upset that we didn't make any moves.

I think he's driving the price up and floating names or potential deals so the Cavs or Wiz will keep making moves. I don't think we do anything at the deadline if it involves giving up picks.

Smart, Rozier aren't going anywhere. A buyout is all we may see coming to Boston. Ainge wants to be ready to pounce when AD says "get me outta here".

Do you really think the 28th+ overall pick is really gonna move the needle for AD? If they are moving him, they are gonna want multiple picks. He not getting moved at the deadline. So it could only be in the summer or next deadline. I really don’t see the need for this years pick.

We could still trade our 2019 pick (after the 2018 draft) plus other futures for AD. I do t see what the 2018 pick means to us when it’s obviously gonna be a late pick and we already have important roster decisions to make this offseason. Are we really go. A let Marcus go or not use the MLE because we got a steal at 28?
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Offline mef730

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I'm beginning to believe Ainge is playing a game here. Remember last year when everyone thought we were trading for Ibaka or PJ Tucker. We were all upset that we didn't make any moves.

I think he's driving the price up and floating names or potential deals so the Cavs or Wiz will keep making moves. I don't think we do anything at the deadline if it involves giving up picks.

Smart, Rozier aren't going anywhere. A buyout is all we may see coming to Boston. Ainge wants to be ready to pounce when AD says "get me outta here".

Exactly. Ainge is almost Belichikian in his trading methods. If we're hearing it, it's because he wants us to hear it.

Mike

Offline rondofan1255

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And one reason to prefer Williams is the fact that he would be less disruptive to the team.  While Evans is a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Williams can play off the ball.

Don't agree with this since Tyreke improved his shooting.  In fact, with size Tyreke is better set up to play off ball for the Celtics next to Kyrie and not disrupt things because he has size and plays defense.

Beyond that, the Celtics actually need a guy who can handle the ball and make a play anyways.  The thing about Evans is he has size and can even cover a SF in a pinch, vs Lou Williams who can't really cover anyone but definitely not anyone outside of the PG spot.  Especially in a situation where Smart was to be moved as he has been doing that for the team.  Another quality ball handler who is a threat to score as well would be a huge aid to the offense.
I think I heard somewhere that Evan's shooting has trended down as the season has worn on.  Are we sure we trust him as a shooter in the post season?  I'm not. 


Evans's shooting has trended down, with January particularly weak.

October (seven games): shooting .425 from the field, .414 3P
November: .521/.421
December: .458/.431
January: .402/.290

This is also the first season in the last four that he has played more than 26 games.

Mike

The shooting is concerning. RS Games played 72, 57, 63, 65, 72, 79, 25, 40, 46 (this year).