Author Topic: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder  (Read 9954 times)

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Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2018, 11:39:58 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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If Danny really, really, wants a first round pick in 2018 he can probably buy one on Draft Night.

I thought that only applied to 2nd round picks?

Or have I been thinking wrong my whole life?  :o

How does buying a pick worth and how much is spent on one?
Celtics bought the pick from Phoenix in the first round that got us Rondo. You can buy any pick.

But it's no guarantee a team will want to surrender their pick, right?
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Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2018, 02:16:05 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2018, 02:49:46 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2018, 10:01:45 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Many GMs have failed with that exact logic. With the NBA's current salary cap situation the smart teams build the end of their bench with cheap late first round picks, 2nd round flyers and min cost FAs. Look at the Spurs roster, the warriors bench (Looney, Bell McCaw) or what DA is currently doing. The Cavs are a prime example of the flawed logic of taking the sure thing and not using the draft pick. This creates a team of aging vets on the bench with ever growing salaries.

It is really important to build talent in order to sustain winning

I call BS on your logic.   There are few teams that guys picked late who are gems, most are scrubs.   For every Kyle Kuzma and Draymond Green  there are like 15 guys who are in the D-league.    Green and Kuzma are not the norm they are exceptional outliers.


Quote
Looney

Kevin Looney with his   3.1 PPG and 2.6 RPG?    Are you sober?  Because he is not a not much of an impact player.   Bell is a  lot better prospect.  McCaw is another laughable person   with 3.9 PPG and 1.5 RPG.   


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/looneke01.html

Since you brought up the word logic, wouldn't a vet produce more than these picks?   The answer is yes.   It is also the logical thing to try to win when the window is open. 

Also, don't worry about a steady stream of youth because we have Trader Danny who traded PP and KG.   He won't have a hard time parting ways if he thinks he can set us in the future with our present roster.


Pick#   Gms   Min         Pts  Reb  Ast          Star   Solid  RoleP  DeepB   Bust  DNP

30       20     250   14.1   5.2   2.6      5%   10%   25%     25%   15%   20%
31   20      146   12.1   4.1   1.9         5%   25%     25%        30%   15%
32   20   152           11.7   4.0   1.6           5%           15%    40%    35% 5%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mccawpa01.html


As you can see all your hum drum is much ado about nothing, our pick would have about a 5% chance to be a star, the odds are about one in four that we might fine a role player and the odds  are that player will be a deep bench player or bust.

These are not your high drama hyperbole but actual stats.  Please not that this sample was a twenty year sample from 1989-2008.  The odds are very good that  this pick will help the D league more than us.   

Logic is concerned with facts and correct reasoning this makes your claiming flawed logic by other GMs something that I am skeptical of in all honesty.

My point is that teams often times get caught in the moment and trade away their 1st for a veteran typically on an expiring contract to fill a perceived hole on their roster. When team do that year after year they eventually end up eroding their bench and paying the consequences. I'll admit the Cs have a very young team and can afford to lose a pick to add a vet but if that vet is a one year rental is it really worth it?

I pointed out the young guys on the Warriors because Looney, McCaw, and Bell are all cheap cost controlled players who are currently each player over 10 MPG and have room to improve. The Spurs have proven that the ability to develop cost controlled bench players is key to sustainable winning. A lot of teams included the big 3 era Celtics get caught up in the all for right now type roster building moves and rather then having developmental talents on roster spots 12-15 they carry 35 year olds chancing rings. I personally feel this is poor roster management.   
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Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2018, 10:13:38 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'll admit the Cs have a very young team and can afford to lose a pick to add a vet but if that vet is a one year rental is it really worth it?

Yes, if doing so would help us reach the Finals, absolutely yes. You never know when you may get another chance.

Quote
I pointed out the young guys on the Warriors because Looney, McCaw, and Bell are all cheap cost controlled players who are currently each player over 10 MPG and have room to improve. The Spurs have proven that the ability to develop cost controlled bench players is key to sustainable winning. A lot of teams included the big 3 era Celtics get caught up in the all for right now type roster building moves and rather then having developmental talents on roster spots 12-15 they carry 35 year olds chancing rings. I personally feel this is poor roster management.   

Sure, having a 35 year old on the end of the bench not getting any playing time is usually a waste. But that isn't the situation here, and won't be if we trade a pick for a player, as the player we are trading for will most assuredly be a major part of our rotation.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2018, 04:22:43 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2018, 04:47:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2018, 05:16:08 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

From the internet:
The Celtics traded picks No. 31 (Deyonta Davis) and 35 in the second round to the Memphis Grizzlies in exchange for a future protected first-round pick from the Clippers.
The Clippers pick is protected in the lottery (picks 1-14) in 2019 and 2020. If it’s not conveyed after 2020, then the Celtics will instead a receive 2022 second-round pick.

But hey, don't bother with facts, it's too much work to look them up.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2018, 06:16:19 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I pointed out the young guys on the Warriors because Looney, McCaw, and Bell are all cheap cost controlled players who are currently each player over 10 MPG and have room to improve.

Your assuming much if you think those guys are going to be much more than they are, Bell has the best chance.  I think we have a chance for title run, sometimes you have to cash in your chips for that.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2018, 06:33:58 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Yet notice how he didn't just sell the picks. He kept them, made picks and didn't literally throw away an assett. The bulls sold a second to GS last draft and got rightfully smashed for the stupid move (GS drafted Bell). There's a million thing you can do with a first. Draft/Stash, Draft/d-league, draft/develop on bench, trade for future pucks, package with a player for better player. You don't throw it away for money. Even late firsts have ALOT of value in this NBA

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2018, 06:45:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Yet notice how he didn't just sell the picks. He kept them, made picks and didn't literally throw away an assett. The bulls sold a second to GS last draft and got rightfully smashed for the stupid move (GS drafted Bell). There's a million thing you can do with a first. Draft/Stash, Draft/d-league, draft/develop on bench, trade for future pucks, package with a player for better player. You don't throw it away for money. Even late firsts have ALOT of value in this NBA
But you do trade those picks for very good vet players who fill a void on your team, especially if you have those voids because you have 7-9 players already on rookie contracts but are vying for a deep playoff run. There comes a point where there is such a thing as having too much youth.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2018, 09:19:29 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Yet notice how he didn't just sell the picks. He kept them, made picks and didn't literally throw away an assett. The bulls sold a second to GS last draft and got rightfully smashed for the stupid move (GS drafted Bell). There's a million thing you can do with a first. Draft/Stash, Draft/d-league, draft/develop on bench, trade for future pucks, package with a player for better player. You don't throw it away for money. Even late firsts have ALOT of value in this NBA
But you do trade those picks for very good vet players who fill a void on your team, especially if you have those voids because you have 7-9 players already on rookie contracts but are vying for a deep playoff run. There comes a point where there is such a thing as having too much youth.

I disagree about the too mych youth part. I'm not trading a pick just because I have ALOT of young giys. A pick is a lottery ticket. The more you have the better the chance of winning. That said if you think you have a shot this year trading the pick us certainly defensible. Of course you could make the argument we would be moving a year early, that we aren't true contenders without Hayward. I don't know, but I trust Ainge.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2018, 10:47:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Yet notice how he didn't just sell the picks. He kept them, made picks and didn't literally throw away an assett. The bulls sold a second to GS last draft and got rightfully smashed for the stupid move (GS drafted Bell). There's a million thing you can do with a first. Draft/Stash, Draft/d-league, draft/develop on bench, trade for future pucks, package with a player for better player. You don't throw it away for money. Even late firsts have ALOT of value in this NBA
But you do trade those picks for very good vet players who fill a void on your team, especially if you have those voids because you have 7-9 players already on rookie contracts but are vying for a deep playoff run. There comes a point where there is such a thing as having too much youth.

I disagree about the too mych youth part. I'm not trading a pick just because I have ALOT of young giys. A pick is a lottery ticket. The more you have the better the chance of winning. That said if you think you have a shot this year trading the pick us certainly defensible. Of course you could make the argument we would be moving a year early, that we aren't true contenders without Hayward. I don't know, but I trust Ainge.
Completely disagree about your stance that you can't have enough youth and ways to add on to that youth. Plain fact is youth doesn't win in the NBA and certainly not titles. This team already has too much youth because they have kept so many of the long shot lottery tickets already. This team doesn't need anymore long odds lottery tickets. It needs some proven veteran play.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2018, 12:53:28 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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No, Ainge does not need to get creative to keep the pick.  I hope he trades it to help us out this year or next year with a veteran player.

This team does not need any more young projects.  We are going into championship mode and need a rotation of veterans.

I find the premise of this thread completely ridiculous.  We have a win now team and we need to take advantage of that and make win now moves.
Yup.  In fact, even if Ainge cannot trade the pick for Evans or someone else, I’d prefer he just sell it for cash than to actually draft someone.  Don’t want the pick at all regardless of if we get the laker pick or not.
Wow, this is the worst take I've seen on Celtics Blog yet. Sell a first round pick? Thats what garbage franchises do.
didn't Ainge kind of do this already? That late 1st (deyonta Davis) was traded for like a heavily protected 2nd rounder in like 20 years lol.

Yeah we had like 8 picks that year too. Good times  ;D

(Although the Yabusele and Zizic selections absolutely puzzled me at the time)
He had to stash players so he chose foreign players who would be easily stashed and yet he felt still had high upside. He literally had way to many draft picks that year.

Yet notice how he didn't just sell the picks. He kept them, made picks and didn't literally throw away an assett. The bulls sold a second to GS last draft and got rightfully smashed for the stupid move (GS drafted Bell). There's a million thing you can do with a first. Draft/Stash, Draft/d-league, draft/develop on bench, trade for future pucks, package with a player for better player. You don't throw it away for money. Even late firsts have ALOT of value in this NBA
But you do trade those picks for very good vet players who fill a void on your team, especially if you have those voids because you have 7-9 players already on rookie contracts but are vying for a deep playoff run. There comes a point where there is such a thing as having too much youth.

I disagree about the too mych youth part. I'm not trading a pick just because I have ALOT of young giys. A pick is a lottery ticket. The more you have the better the chance of winning. That said if you think you have a shot this year trading the pick us certainly defensible. Of course you could make the argument we would be moving a year early, that we aren't true contenders without Hayward. I don't know, but I trust Ainge.
Completely disagree about your stance that you can't have enough youth and ways to add on to that youth. Plain fact is youth doesn't win in the NBA and certainly not titles. This team already has too much youth because they have kept so many of the long shot lottery tickets already. This team doesn't need anymore long odds lottery tickets. It needs some proven veteran play.

I don't diagree that vets win more than youth. I just think if you are gonna trade a first your thnking should be "I want a vet to help us win, so I am willing to surredner an aseet" rather than "Well screw it this pick isnt an asset so lets just give it away." The OP i was repsonding to was willing to light an aseet on fire because we had anough young guys, he wanted to sell it not trade it for vet help. First round picks are more valuable the ever, you should never wnat to give one away because you have enough.

What this all comes down to is where you think this team is at. If we are in "win now" mode you trade the pick for help an go for it. Because you are right, vets win more than youth and the chance too win a chip trumps all. If you are in 'win later" mode you keep the pick, becasue 4 years of young guy is more valuable then 4 months of vets player who wont put you over the top. I think as soon as Hayward went down we were in "Win later" mode, but if Ainge disagrees I won't complain. The guy hasnt been wrong in like 5 years.

Re: Ainge Needs To Get Creative & KEEP The 2018 Boston First Rounder
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2018, 01:48:24 AM »

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