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Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #135 on: January 30, 2018, 04:07:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756649-marc-stein-says-clippers-clearly-believe-lebron-james-will-consider-signing

Quote
Trading away Blake Griffin was reportedly the beginning of a larger plan for the Los Angeles Clippers.

According to Marc Stein of the New York Times, the organization plans to target LeBron James this offseason and believes it will be on his shortlist.

DeAndre Jordan and Lou Williams are also expected to be moved to help clear space.

This all comes after Griffin was traded to the Detroit Pistons Monday, per Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

Griffin had just signed a five-year deal in the offseason worth $173 million. With more than $30 million owed over the next three years, plus a player option in 2021-22, the chances of landing another top free agent weren't great.



More of that LA exceptionalism!  ::)
I have always agreed with you and Stein that the Clippers would be the better option for James. I just can't believe that he would relish the idea of playing with Ball or dealing with the drama of the Ball crime family off the court. A team constructed around the trio of James, George, and Tobias with Boban and Beverley as complementary starters would be interesting. It looks like it would require moving both Jordan and Gallinari for expiring contracts plus other smaller moves. Jordan seems doable but Gallinari would certainly require attached picks to even be remotely possible. Even if none of this comes to pass, the Clippers have better positioned themselves for a complete rebuild if that is their chosen path. In the end, Houston may be Lebron's best non-LA choice.
James will not go to the Clippers.  He is far too close with Chris Paul for that team to be an option.  One of the Fox Sports guys (maybe Brussard) confirmed that James won't go there just yesterday (though he didn't say why, just that he had it from those close to James that the Clippers aren't an option). 
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Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #136 on: January 30, 2018, 04:40:59 PM »

Offline mctyson

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This trade still makes no sense to me for Detroit, one day later.  Blake's contract is AWFUL.  Granted the Clips signed it, but they did so without a no-trade clause, which was very smart.

I like it a lot more for the Clippers since they got rid of that contract, and got a draft pick out of it.  Whatever Bradley and Harris give them is gravy.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #137 on: January 30, 2018, 05:26:12 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley. 


Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #138 on: January 30, 2018, 05:49:51 PM »

Offline saltlover

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley.

Very good point.  Tobias Harris was acquired for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova.  They got Bradley for Marcus Morris (whom they got from Phoenix for a 2020 2nd round pick).  Boban was someone they overpaid in free agency.  Essentially they got Blake for a 1st-round pick with move-up-in-the-lottery protections and a series of contracts they were moving on from.  Yes, he's expensive, but if they had kept Bradley, they would have wound up paying more for those three players next year than Blake will make, so even the cost for the next 1.5 seasons isn't huge.  The team has been stagnant for a decade -- now it may not be.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #139 on: January 30, 2018, 06:58:23 PM »

Offline mctyson

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley.

Very good point.  Tobias Harris was acquired for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova.  They got Bradley for Marcus Morris (whom they got from Phoenix for a 2020 2nd round pick).  Boban was someone they overpaid in free agency.  Essentially they got Blake for a 1st-round pick with move-up-in-the-lottery protections and a series of contracts they were moving on from.  Yes, he's expensive, but if they had kept Bradley, they would have wound up paying more for those three players next year than Blake will make, so even the cost for the next 1.5 seasons isn't huge.  The team has been stagnant for a decade -- now it may not be.

I don't think going back through iterations of trades justifies this.  One has to evaluate the return individually and how this fits near and long-term.

Blake Griffin is a serially-injured player turning 29 next month.  He will be making near $40M at the end of his deal, just freshly minted.  You could argue he has the worst contract in the NBA (he almost certainly will at the end of it), even though he is still a very productive player. 

If there was only 2 years left on his deal, I would have a different evaluation of the risk-vs-reward return here.  But to me, the return here is an awful contract that will kill Detroit's future.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #140 on: January 30, 2018, 08:02:43 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley.

Very good point.  Tobias Harris was acquired for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova.  They got Bradley for Marcus Morris (whom they got from Phoenix for a 2020 2nd round pick).  Boban was someone they overpaid in free agency.  Essentially they got Blake for a 1st-round pick with move-up-in-the-lottery protections and a series of contracts they were moving on from.  Yes, he's expensive, but if they had kept Bradley, they would have wound up paying more for those three players next year than Blake will make, so even the cost for the next 1.5 seasons isn't huge.  The team has been stagnant for a decade -- now it may not be.

I don't think going back through iterations of trades justifies this.  One has to evaluate the return individually and how this fits near and long-term.

Blake Griffin is a serially-injured player turning 29 next month.  He will be making near $40M at the end of his deal, just freshly minted.  You could argue he has the worst contract in the NBA (he almost certainly will at the end of it), even though he is still a very productive player. 

If there was only 2 years left on his deal, I would have a different evaluation of the risk-vs-reward return here.  But to me, the return here is an awful contract that will kill Detroit's future.

This is the point I was making - what great (or even above average) future are they killing? They’ve been mediocre for over a decade now. The cost wasn’t great. They sold high on players they bought low for. And now their future is better than before.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #141 on: January 30, 2018, 08:16:56 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley.

Very good point.  Tobias Harris was acquired for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova.  They got Bradley for Marcus Morris (whom they got from Phoenix for a 2020 2nd round pick).  Boban was someone they overpaid in free agency.  Essentially they got Blake for a 1st-round pick with move-up-in-the-lottery protections and a series of contracts they were moving on from.  Yes, he's expensive, but if they had kept Bradley, they would have wound up paying more for those three players next year than Blake will make, so even the cost for the next 1.5 seasons isn't huge.  The team has been stagnant for a decade -- now it may not be.

I don't think going back through iterations of trades justifies this.  One has to evaluate the return individually and how this fits near and long-term.

Blake Griffin is a serially-injured player turning 29 next month.  He will be making near $40M at the end of his deal, just freshly minted.  You could argue he has the worst contract in the NBA (he almost certainly will at the end of it), even though he is still a very productive player. 

If there was only 2 years left on his deal, I would have a different evaluation of the risk-vs-reward return here.  But to me, the return here is an awful contract that will kill Detroit's future.

This is the point I was making - what great (or even above average) future are they killing? They’ve been mediocre for over a decade now. The cost wasn’t great. They sold high on players they bought low for. And now their future is better than before.
That's a good point.  Mediocrity may be enough if Blake gets people to come to their new facility.  They are 2nd lowest in attendance to the Hawks.  Most teams just aren't going to become championship contenders unless they get lucky drafting a superstar. 

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #142 on: January 30, 2018, 08:19:30 PM »

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That contract is nuts, but they weren't going to spend that money on a better player(s).  I guess that makes it a win then? 

If Detroit gets all healthy at once, maybe they're not bad.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #143 on: January 30, 2018, 08:52:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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That contract is nuts, but they weren't going to spend that money on a better player(s).  I guess that makes it a win then? 

If Detroit gets all healthy at once, maybe they're not bad.

To the point the other posters are making above:
On increased ticket sales alone, this deal is a win for Detroit.
People act like the goal is to win banners. It's not (necessarily). This is a business. The goal is to get people to buy jerseys and tickets.
Winning a championship is one way to do it. Bringing a marketable star to town is another way.
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Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #144 on: January 31, 2018, 02:50:48 AM »

Offline Somebody

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G: Patrick Beverley, Milos Teodosic
 G: Lou Williams, Avery Bradley
SF: Danilo Gallinari, Wes Johnson
PF: Tobias Harris, ?? (Dekker)
 C: DeAndre Jordan, Marjanovich

I like this team. Fun group. A dominant garbage man in DeAndre Jordan surrounded by 3 players capable of creating off the dribble in Lou Will, Tobias Harris and Gallinari plus an extra guard in Beverley or Bradley. Or even 4 players with Teodosic in there. That is unpredictable attack. Lacking in star power but they have real quality stretched across their top 6 guards / forwards.

The Clips frontcourt depth is dodgy though. Lacking a quality backup to DeAndre and lacking in quality bench forwards to keep their style of play going while Harris or Gallo sit. Need a 6th man type off the bench at combo forward and an able bodied backup C. The Clips would do well to package Avery Bradley off in a separate trade to fill that bench forward slot with better talent.

They look a definite playoff team to me.
Bev is out for the season, so their lineuo is more like:
G: Rivers, Lou, Milos
G: AB, CJ Williams, Thornwell
SF: Gallo, Wallace, Dekker
PF: Harris, Wesley
C: DaJ, Harrell, Boban
Their big spot solid enough imo, Harell can hold down the C spot as a big and rugged 4 man ala a young Nene while Boban is useful in the matchups. Also imo a combination of Wallace/Wesley/Dekker is good enough for a backup combo forward. Think they're a WC contender tbh, truly love the fit of the team. Also Lou is a star to me, think this team has a star duo with a bunch of super role players.

Ah, I didn't realize Beverley was out for the season. That is a bummer. Cannot trade Avery for more forward depth then. Not enough guard depth without Beverley.

I don't like Harrell as a backup center. He is too small. Only 6-7 / 6-8. He is a old school undersized PF pretending to be a center. Lacks the size and length to anchor a team's defense and protect the basket. He is a 3rd string caliber player in my opinion give his limitations (as is Boban = lack of speed / mobility).

Dekker and Wes are adequate as bench forwards but I think LAC needs a top quality bench forward to win big without a legit star on their team. They need that extra quality in depth. They are about 6-7 guys deep but they need 9 guys to win without a top tier player. Without a top 10 player in the league type. Right now, LAC figures to lose too much offense (for a team without a top star) while one of their starting forwards goes to the bench. If LAC managed to add that high level bench forward and a solid backup center, I'd rate them as WCF contenders too.


Edit: I think that unpredictability / versatility in offensive options is what LAC has to have to compete without a top 10 talent in their team. Right now when they only have 1 of Tobias Harris or Danilo Gallinari on the floor alongside Lou Will -- I don't think they have firepower to maintain that through a 7 game playoff series. When the 3 of those guys are on the court together, I think they have that firepower. I think they need more offense, more shot creation, from their bench forwards to maintain that offensive threat.
Why is maintaining the offense for forwards only? Imo the Clippers have a very good offense, aside from Lou in the guard spot they've got Austin Rivers, who's also lighting it up this season (percentages look bad I know but he's been doing well in generating offense for his team this season) and Bradley can occasionally get hot and can generally create a bit for himself. Playing Rivers and Lou together will provide enough offense even if only one of Harris/Gallo are on the court. I think the Clippers' bench forwards are enough as 3 and D wings. Meanwhile about Harrell at C, he's been quite effective there this season even though I'm the same as you (don't like 6'8-6'10 PFs pretending to be Cs unless they're of the same breed as Russell/Big Ben/6'5 Unseld), so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has also been quite good at PF so I think he's a solid backup. As for Boban I agree with you, just saying he can be thrown at some teams according to matchups and 10-15 minutes a game, which holds down the C spot for a while with both of them being able to play a bit there. Imo they'll probably solve the problem by adding a Monroe/Chandler type through waivers at the end of the season so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 03:03:21 AM by Somebody »
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #145 on: January 31, 2018, 06:26:13 AM »

Offline mctyson

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In fairness to the Pistons, they did buy low and sell high.

They bought low on "one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA". Boston gave them a second and Bradley for Morris. Bradley's reputation is considerably bigger than his on court play, yet he still is coveted by teams looking for a 3-D player. He has a career 107 defensive rating, a career negative box score plus minus, and he is undersized and not switchable. Did you know that he has a career 99 offensive rating? Even on good offensive teams, his offensive rating was below average, probably largely due to his inability to create for others or get to the free throw line. Did you know he's a 37% 3 point shooter? That's respectable, but not exactly JJ Reddick. Its not like they were going to resign him after this season anyway.

They bought low on Harris from the Magic. They inflated his value all season. Did you know that he didn't even start half the games last year because Morris started over him? Did you know he averages 3 FTA per 36 for his career? Did you know that, even though he is shooting 41% from 3 this year, he is a career 35% shooter. He has averaged 20 ppg this year, but its not bringing his team wins. 20 ppg scorers on losing teams are not as impressive as 16 ppg scorers in winning teams.

Its not like their draft picks have been any good, either.

The Pistons bought low and sold high. They have a more exciting team. They have higher upside for at least the next 3 years. And they didn't have to trade Johnson, Bullock, or Kennard, which gives them the flexibility to try to land another solid rotation player, or continue to develop from within.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons aren't competing for a championship -- they are now a perennial treadmill team. But their immediate future is much brighter than it would have been with Harris, Boban, and Bradley.

Very good point.  Tobias Harris was acquired for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova.  They got Bradley for Marcus Morris (whom they got from Phoenix for a 2020 2nd round pick).  Boban was someone they overpaid in free agency.  Essentially they got Blake for a 1st-round pick with move-up-in-the-lottery protections and a series of contracts they were moving on from.  Yes, he's expensive, but if they had kept Bradley, they would have wound up paying more for those three players next year than Blake will make, so even the cost for the next 1.5 seasons isn't huge.  The team has been stagnant for a decade -- now it may not be.

I don't think going back through iterations of trades justifies this.  One has to evaluate the return individually and how this fits near and long-term.

Blake Griffin is a serially-injured player turning 29 next month.  He will be making near $40M at the end of his deal, just freshly minted.  You could argue he has the worst contract in the NBA (he almost certainly will at the end of it), even though he is still a very productive player. 

If there was only 2 years left on his deal, I would have a different evaluation of the risk-vs-reward return here.  But to me, the return here is an awful contract that will kill Detroit's future.

This is the point I was making - what great (or even above average) future are they killing? They’ve been mediocre for over a decade now. The cost wasn’t great. They sold high on players they bought low for. And now their future is better than before.

This is where I disagree.  The future is always unknown. 

You can say that Detroit has been mediocre to bad for a decade or more, and that this trade more or less keeps them there or marginally improves on that, and I will say you are right.  Heck, maybe in the near term Detroit creates a poorer version of the Boogie-AD combo and makes a run at a 5 or 6 seed in the East.  For 2018, this move is not crazy.

For 2020 and beyond, this move is awful.  If I am a Pistons fan, do I really think we are building anything close to a contending team around this guy?  Of course not.  I do not want to be mediocre for another decade.   


Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #146 on: January 31, 2018, 06:38:39 AM »

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G: Patrick Beverley, Milos Teodosic
 G: Lou Williams, Avery Bradley
SF: Danilo Gallinari, Wes Johnson
PF: Tobias Harris, ?? (Dekker)
 C: DeAndre Jordan, Marjanovich

I like this team. Fun group. A dominant garbage man in DeAndre Jordan surrounded by 3 players capable of creating off the dribble in Lou Will, Tobias Harris and Gallinari plus an extra guard in Beverley or Bradley. Or even 4 players with Teodosic in there. That is unpredictable attack. Lacking in star power but they have real quality stretched across their top 6 guards / forwards.

The Clips frontcourt depth is dodgy though. Lacking a quality backup to DeAndre and lacking in quality bench forwards to keep their style of play going while Harris or Gallo sit. Need a 6th man type off the bench at combo forward and an able bodied backup C. The Clips would do well to package Avery Bradley off in a separate trade to fill that bench forward slot with better talent.

They look a definite playoff team to me.
Bev is out for the season, so their lineuo is more like:
G: Rivers, Lou, Milos
G: AB, CJ Williams, Thornwell
SF: Gallo, Wallace, Dekker
PF: Harris, Wesley
C: DaJ, Harrell, Boban
Their big spot solid enough imo, Harell can hold down the C spot as a big and rugged 4 man ala a young Nene while Boban is useful in the matchups. Also imo a combination of Wallace/Wesley/Dekker is good enough for a backup combo forward. Think they're a WC contender tbh, truly love the fit of the team. Also Lou is a star to me, think this team has a star duo with a bunch of super role players.

Ah, I didn't realize Beverley was out for the season. That is a bummer. Cannot trade Avery for more forward depth then. Not enough guard depth without Beverley.

I don't like Harrell as a backup center. He is too small. Only 6-7 / 6-8. He is a old school undersized PF pretending to be a center. Lacks the size and length to anchor a team's defense and protect the basket. He is a 3rd string caliber player in my opinion give his limitations (as is Boban = lack of speed / mobility).

Dekker and Wes are adequate as bench forwards but I think LAC needs a top quality bench forward to win big without a legit star on their team. They need that extra quality in depth. They are about 6-7 guys deep but they need 9 guys to win without a top tier player. Without a top 10 player in the league type. Right now, LAC figures to lose too much offense (for a team without a top star) while one of their starting forwards goes to the bench. If LAC managed to add that high level bench forward and a solid backup center, I'd rate them as WCF contenders too.


Edit: I think that unpredictability / versatility in offensive options is what LAC has to have to compete without a top 10 talent in their team. Right now when they only have 1 of Tobias Harris or Danilo Gallinari on the floor alongside Lou Will -- I don't think they have firepower to maintain that through a 7 game playoff series. When the 3 of those guys are on the court together, I think they have that firepower. I think they need more offense, more shot creation, from their bench forwards to maintain that offensive threat.
Why is maintaining the offense for forwards only? Imo the Clippers have a very good offense, aside from Lou in the guard spot they've got Austin Rivers, who's also lighting it up this season (percentages look bad I know but he's been doing well in generating offense for his team this season) and Bradley can occasionally get hot and can generally create a bit for himself. Playing Rivers and Lou together will provide enough offense even if only one of Harris/Gallo are on the court. I think the Clippers' bench forwards are enough as 3 and D wings. Meanwhile about Harrell at C, he's been quite effective there this season even though I'm the same as you (don't like 6'8-6'10 PFs pretending to be Cs unless they're of the same breed as Russell/Big Ben/6'5 Unseld), so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has also been quite good at PF so I think he's a solid backup. As for Boban I agree with you, just saying he can be thrown at some teams according to matchups and 10-15 minutes a game, which holds down the C spot for a while with both of them being able to play a bit there. Imo they'll probably solve the problem by adding a Monroe/Chandler type through waivers at the end of the season so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

It is about balance. It about needing that balance because they do not have a Steph Curry or a LeBron James to do the heavy lifting.

I am happy with the guards. With the offense Avery, Teodosic and Rivers can bring behind Lou Williams. Those guys are threats. I do not think Dekker or Wes Johnson are the same. They are basic offensive players. Limited.

Those limits are harsher on the team without a top star like Steph Curry or LeBron and also with a center like DeAndre Jordan (or Boban or Harrell) who is a limited offensive player himself (non-shooter + non-passer). That puts too much pressure on the guards. In the playoffs, when teams can hone in on your better offensive players, they can focus on those guards because the forwards and bigs do not bring enough creation offensively to the table.

They need one more player. Another 6th man of the year type (as bench forward). To be a successful team without a star. To have that offensive balance they need.

Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2018, 10:27:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

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For those that don't like the contract, what if you knew Blake would play at least 70 games a year for the remaining years of the contract?  Even if he picks up his player option that makes him 33 at the end, i.e. just outside his prime.  The 3 prior seasons and this one, he has basically been a 21.5/8/5 player.  There is no reason to think his production will diminish for at least the next couple of seasons. 

So is the concern just the health or something more? 

Additionally, for those that don't like the trade, how do you think Detroit was going to acquire a player as good as Blake in the next few seasons?  What was their path to improving the team if they didn't make this trade (remember they were over the cap regardless)?  What would you have done if you were SVG if not something like Blake?
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Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2018, 07:54:22 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Man earning  25 million per year finds out through twitter he needs to move to new US city to continue to earn 25 million per year. Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing yawn.

Mind you, "City upset local millionaire wants to live in different city" is about as stupid (ironically, unless your a Clippers fan, then that Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. stings for real)
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Re: #WojBomb: Clips and Pistons Agree to Blake Griffin Trade
« Reply #149 on: January 31, 2018, 08:05:07 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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For those that don't like the contract, what if you knew Blake would play at least 70 games a year for the remaining years of the contract?  Even if he picks up his player option that makes him 33 at the end, i.e. just outside his prime.  The 3 prior seasons and this one, he has basically been a 21.5/8/5 player.  There is no reason to think his production will diminish for at least the next couple of seasons. 

So is the concern just the health or something more? 

Additionally, for those that don't like the trade, how do you think Detroit was going to acquire a player as good as Blake in the next few seasons?  What was their path to improving the team if they didn't make this trade (remember they were over the cap regardless)?  What would you have done if you were SVG if not something like Blake?

The concern is health and declining athleticism. The health is a big one because he hasn't played 70 games in like 4 years. Games played generally doesn't trend up. Add injury prone to rising contract and declining athleticism and you have a recipe for an albatross contract.