Author Topic: Kawhi Leonard  (Read 6289 times)

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Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2018, 09:15:51 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Isn't Kawhi eligible for a designated veteran extension this offseason? 

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2018, 11:00:43 PM »

Offline cons

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pop gets a lot of credit that really should go more to duncan. nothing in san antonio happens without duncan. he's gone now and the real world is crashing down on pop.  imho   :)

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2018, 11:50:46 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Popovich will fix it.

I think Pop, like Belichick, knows that he's the best. It is hard for them to remain humble without being stubborn. I assume that he will figure out a way to keep Kawhi in SA and decently happy. Unless he gets a ridiculous return, I imagine Pop knows that he needs his best player in his prime.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 06:16:46 AM »

Offline gouki88

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If he does get traded, as long as it's not to the Lakers, Warriors or Cavaliers, I'll be happy.

I don't think he gets traded BUT it's certainly getting interesting. I think there is something going on between Kawhi and the Spurs behind the scenes. Doesn't mean it can't get resolved but it's also hard to overlook that Kawhi doesn't want to come back even though the Spurs are a Top-4 team in the West without him (just imagine how they'd be WITH him + Gay), and he's been medically cleared for a while according to reports.  ???
Add the 76ers to that list. I really would hate to see Embiid with Leonard against us

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2018, 07:07:50 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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pop gets a lot of credit that really should go more to duncan. nothing in san antonio happens without duncan. he's gone now and the real world is crashing down on pop.  imho   :)
Duncan couldn't win without the players that pop put around him that others didn't find. And Pop has still been doing very well without Duncan or Kawhi.
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Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2018, 08:12:13 AM »

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pop gets a lot of credit that really should go more to duncan. nothing in san antonio happens without duncan. he's gone now and the real world is crashing down on pop.  imho   :)

Couldn't agree more.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2018, 08:34:18 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Nobody knows what is going on between Kawhi and Spurs management which leaves us open to speculate.

I wonder if Kawhi is essentially pulling a "kyrie" here.  Spurs are a competitive team in Pops system/culture, but with so many old players, maybe he doesn't see a chip in the near future.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2018, 10:38:39 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Just based on reports, I think he was low-key shopped at the deadline. I'm guessing that no team offered enough to make it worth their while. I'd be shocked if Danny Ainge hadn't called. He's the most available superstar right now. Davis might be soon.

Here's the thing: are we sure he's that good? I mean, I know this is heresy, but it's a legit question. Obviously he is a great defender. I think any team would be better with him defensively.

But offensively, are we sure he is that good? I know he is good, but is he an offensive superstar? He averaged 26 points a game one year in his career. That was the first year that he drew fouls at a high rate (over .4 FTR). He is not a great passer or ball-handler.

He dribbles a lot. He holds the ball a lot. He is not great at ball movement (which could be the product of the offense, or it could be Pop creating an offense around Leonard).

On top of that, he has been injury-prone in his career. You can't really play him at the 4 because you risk his getting injured with the physicality (a dirty secret is that the reason Pop moved to a two-big lineup with Leonard at the 3 is because he wanted to protect Leonard).

Let's just say that Leonard's success is, at least partiallly, due to the system. Let's say that in a normal NBA system as the first option, he would be a 20/5/2 player with elite defense.

Are we sure Brown isn't going to be that in two years? Is it worth trading Brown, plus depth, plus picks for that if Leonard isn't a significant upgrade in the long run? Some team looking to make some noise will trade for Leonard, but I'm not sure we should.

The team I wonder about is the Lakers. Isn't Leonard a California kid? The Lakers could give Ingram for Leonard (they will have cap space to absorb his contract) and then sign Lebron James. That would give the Spurs more youth and a valuable trade exception.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2018, 06:21:29 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Just based on reports, I think he was low-key shopped at the deadline. I'm guessing that no team offered enough to make it worth their while. I'd be shocked if Danny Ainge hadn't called. He's the most available superstar right now. Davis might be soon.

Here's the thing: are we sure he's that good? I mean, I know this is heresy, but it's a legit question. Obviously he is a great defender. I think any team would be better with him defensively.

But offensively, are we sure he is that good? I know he is good, but is he an offensive superstar? He averaged 26 points a game one year in his career. That was the first year that he drew fouls at a high rate (over .4 FTR). He is not a great passer or ball-handler.

He dribbles a lot. He holds the ball a lot. He is not great at ball movement (which could be the product of the offense, or it could be Pop creating an offense around Leonard).

On top of that, he has been injury-prone in his career. You can't really play him at the 4 because you risk his getting injured with the physicality (a dirty secret is that the reason Pop moved to a two-big lineup with Leonard at the 3 is because he wanted to protect Leonard).

Let's just say that Leonard's success is, at least partiallly, due to the system. Let's say that in a normal NBA system as the first option, he would be a 20/5/2 player with elite defense.

Are we sure Brown isn't going to be that in two years? Is it worth trading Brown, plus depth, plus picks for that if Leonard isn't a significant upgrade in the long run? Some team looking to make some noise will trade for Leonard, but I'm not sure we should.

The team I wonder about is the Lakers. Isn't Leonard a California kid? The Lakers could give Ingram for Leonard (they will have cap space to absorb his contract) and then sign Lebron James. That would give the Spurs more youth and a valuable trade exception.
Assuming there is high confidence Kawhi will fully recover from his current injury and that there is a good chance he'll re-sign, trading Brown, filler and the Lakings pick is a no brainer.  Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford would be a heck of a team.  Kawhi wouldn't have to be the #1 scoring option every night. 

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2018, 06:27:52 PM »

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Just based on reports, I think he was low-key shopped at the deadline. I'm guessing that no team offered enough to make it worth their while. I'd be shocked if Danny Ainge hadn't called. He's the most available superstar right now. Davis might be soon.

Here's the thing: are we sure he's that good? I mean, I know this is heresy, but it's a legit question. Obviously he is a great defender. I think any team would be better with him defensively.

But offensively, are we sure he is that good? I know he is good, but is he an offensive superstar? He averaged 26 points a game one year in his career. That was the first year that he drew fouls at a high rate (over .4 FTR). He is not a great passer or ball-handler.

He dribbles a lot. He holds the ball a lot. He is not great at ball movement (which could be the product of the offense, or it could be Pop creating an offense around Leonard).

On top of that, he has been injury-prone in his career. You can't really play him at the 4 because you risk his getting injured with the physicality (a dirty secret is that the reason Pop moved to a two-big lineup with Leonard at the 3 is because he wanted to protect Leonard).

Let's just say that Leonard's success is, at least partiallly, due to the system. Let's say that in a normal NBA system as the first option, he would be a 20/5/2 player with elite defense.

Are we sure Brown isn't going to be that in two years? Is it worth trading Brown, plus depth, plus picks for that if Leonard isn't a significant upgrade in the long run? Some team looking to make some noise will trade for Leonard, but I'm not sure we should.

The team I wonder about is the Lakers. Isn't Leonard a California kid? The Lakers could give Ingram for Leonard (they will have cap space to absorb his contract) and then sign Lebron James. That would give the Spurs more youth and a valuable trade exception.
Assuming there is high confidence Kawhi will fully recover from his current injury and that there is a good chance he'll re-sign, trading Brown, filler and the Lakings pick is a no brainer.  Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford would be a heck of a team.  Kawhi wouldn't have to be the #1 scoring option every night.
Agreed. While there are some red flags surrounding Leonard(value probably inflated by Pop, why does he want out of elite org? injuries) his combination of offense and DPOY level defense combined with his sterling playoff resume(his towers above that of Kyrie Irving whose resume isnt shabby) make him incredibly valuable.
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Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2018, 10:22:11 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Unfortunately, the "LaKings" is essentially the Kings pick, barring an incredible stroke of luck, as the Lakers pile up wins against teams that are even worse than they are. I don't believe that the Spurs will accept a trade that doesn't have a high pick in this draft unless we include both Brown and Tatum, which probably doesn't make sense.                                                                         


« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 10:43:34 PM by Irish Stew »

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2018, 10:30:47 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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Just based on reports, I think he was low-key shopped at the deadline. I'm guessing that no team offered enough to make it worth their while. I'd be shocked if Danny Ainge hadn't called. He's the most available superstar right now. Davis might be soon.

Here's the thing: are we sure he's that good? I mean, I know this is heresy, but it's a legit question. Obviously he is a great defender. I think any team would be better with him defensively.

But offensively, are we sure he is that good? I know he is good, but is he an offensive superstar? He averaged 26 points a game one year in his career. That was the first year that he drew fouls at a high rate (over .4 FTR). He is not a great passer or ball-handler.

He dribbles a lot. He holds the ball a lot. He is not great at ball movement (which could be the product of the offense, or it could be Pop creating an offense around Leonard).

On top of that, he has been injury-prone in his career. You can't really play him at the 4 because you risk his getting injured with the physicality (a dirty secret is that the reason Pop moved to a two-big lineup with Leonard at the 3 is because he wanted to protect Leonard).

Let's just say that Leonard's success is, at least partiallly, due to the system. Let's say that in a normal NBA system as the first option, he would be a 20/5/2 player with elite defense.

Are we sure Brown isn't going to be that in two years? Is it worth trading Brown, plus depth, plus picks for that if Leonard isn't a significant upgrade in the long run? Some team looking to make some noise will trade for Leonard, but I'm not sure we should.

The team I wonder about is the Lakers. Isn't Leonard a California kid? The Lakers could give Ingram for Leonard (they will have cap space to absorb his contract) and then sign Lebron James. That would give the Spurs more youth and a valuable trade exception.
Assuming there is high confidence Kawhi will fully recover from his current injury and that there is a good chance he'll re-sign, trading Brown, filler and the Lakings pick is a no brainer.  Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford would be a heck of a team.  Kawhi wouldn't have to be the #1 scoring option every night.

Did you see Kawhi play in the playoffs last year?  He was an offensive superstar.  He was a freaking assassin.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2018, 10:43:06 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Kawhi has been excellent in SA. The question is whether he'll be great in BOS or any other program.

I think he can be a top 5 player in the league again with another coach, but the emergence of young players like Anthony Davis, Giannis, and even Embiid might challenge the top rankings. Regardless, the organization that signs Kawhi will likely yield more value than the humongous salary that they give him.

Unfortunately, I think this rumor is all to do about nothing. I'm banking on him staying in SAS.

Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2018, 12:55:28 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Call me crazy but Iíll take Kyrie-Hayward-Kawhi-Horford over Steph-Klay-KD-Draymond.
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Re: woj: "tremendous disconnect" Between kawhi and spurs
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2018, 12:17:36 PM »

Offline GRADYCOLNON

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Just based on reports, I think he was low-key shopped at the deadline. I'm guessing that no team offered enough to make it worth their while. I'd be shocked if Danny Ainge hadn't called. He's the most available superstar right now. Davis might be soon.

Here's the thing: are we sure he's that good? I mean, I know this is heresy, but it's a legit question. Obviously he is a great defender. I think any team would be better with him defensively.

But offensively, are we sure he is that good? I know he is good, but is he an offensive superstar? He averaged 26 points a game one year in his career. That was the first year that he drew fouls at a high rate (over .4 FTR). He is not a great passer or ball-handler.

He dribbles a lot. He holds the ball a lot. He is not great at ball movement (which could be the product of the offense, or it could be Pop creating an offense around Leonard).

On top of that, he has been injury-prone in his career. You can't really play him at the 4 because you risk his getting injured with the physicality (a dirty secret is that the reason Pop moved to a two-big lineup with Leonard at the 3 is because he wanted to protect Leonard).

Let's just say that Leonard's success is, at least partiallly, due to the system. Let's say that in a normal NBA system as the first option, he would be a 20/5/2 player with elite defense.

Are we sure Brown isn't going to be that in two years? Is it worth trading Brown, plus depth, plus picks for that if Leonard isn't a significant upgrade in the long run? Some team looking to make some noise will trade for Leonard, but I'm not sure we should.

The team I wonder about is the Lakers. Isn't Leonard a California kid? The Lakers could give Ingram for Leonard (they will have cap space to absorb his contract) and then sign Lebron James. That would give the Spurs more youth and a valuable trade exception.
Assuming there is high confidence Kawhi will fully recover from his current injury and that there is a good chance he'll re-sign, trading Brown, filler and the Lakings pick is a no brainer.  Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford would be a heck of a team.  Kawhi wouldn't have to be the #1 scoring option every night.

Did you see Kawhi play in the playoffs last year?  He was an offensive superstar.  He was a freaking assassin.

If there was a trade, would Irving and Leonard be more redundant (scoring wise) than Leonard and Hayward (position wise)? 

Cuz holding onto our younger guys like Brown and Tatum are the reason why this team will be a long-term player rather than short term.  Plus with the salaries piling up, a deal would be surrounding a star so we can keep managing our salary (as we've established is important for longevity in prior general discussions). 

Also, an answer to the first question would be a strong premise for who gets traded.