All-Star team rosters revealed; Lebron picks Kyrie

[Snakehead]

What's the chance horford was picked last?

I mean there are a lot of great players, but I think NBA players (especially smart ones) and coaches appreciate what Al can do.  It's mostly just fans and some media players who do not.

agreed. Fans who focus on box scores for sure

Especially a guard or ball handler choosing who to play with.  Just from even my level of play, can't speak to how valuable a good screener is (or a ball handler when you are a screener), who knows what to do and shares the ball, and is a threat to score at different areas.  You want to play with a guy like that.

I mean, it is the All Star game and other guys out there are pretty great at that too.  None are perhaps as versatile and he is the best passing big man in the league IMO.

[Donoghus]

As an aside,  this year's all star uniforms are in the running for worst ones in NBA history, IMO.

The New Orleans ones from '14 have to be in the discussion too, though.

[Erik]

What's the chance horford was picked last?  Lebron locked in size early with cousins and Davis and curry spent time in reserves drafting his teammates and probably towns. Then lebron probably got K love for loyalty early in reserves

Probably fairly high because he's not a big mouth with a ton of stats. But I think he has a perfect skillset for an allstar game with his great passing ability and hustle. Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

[Snakehead]

Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

The man 3rd in the NBA in assists doesn't pass?  Huh.

https://stats.nba.com/leaders/?StatCategory=AST

Even as a SG he's substantially better at passing and playmaking then PG's Kyrie, Lowry or Lillard (nevermind that he is by far the best at it for a SG).   He's the league MVP so far.  I'm sure he went real high.

[Monkhouse]

What's the chance horford was picked last?  Lebron locked in size early with cousins and Davis and curry spent time in reserves drafting his teammates and probably towns. Then lebron probably got K love for loyalty early in reserves

Probably fairly high because he's not a big mouth with a ton of stats. But I think he has a perfect skillset for an allstar game with his great passing ability and hustle. Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

There is absolutely no way you can justify DeRozan being better than Harden.

[RockinRyA]

Steph's team:

Not wild about DeRozan and Giannis together in the starting lineup. I haven't liked DeRozan in the ASG in the past. He is very selfish and not efficient enough to justify it. Takes shots away from better players. Harms ball movement. Settles for bad shots. Dodgy jump-shooter. And Giannis is a non-shooter. So I don't like the two of them together. I think Steph would've been better off with a shooter at SF next to Giannis rather than DeRozan's slashing game.

His bench has a lot of guys who are not great All-Star type players. Horford, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler. Slower players who do great in a halfcourt game which the ASG is not. It is more of an open court game. I don't think these guys do their best work there. So I don't his selections on the bench.

I don't like the Lowry selection either. Steph has Klay and Lillard off the bench with himself and Harden in the starting lineup. Lots of shooting and ball-handling. Lowry is unnecessary. They should glue his butt to the bench.

I think Lillard will do great in the ASG. I like Klay and Towns too. Lillard I think is a sleeper for MVP. I can see him having a huge game off the bench.

Giannis will be dynamite. Another top MVP candidate. He will be a breakaway train in the open court. Dunking left and right. Grabbing rebounds / loose balls. Handling the ball in transition. A nightmare for LeBron's team.

Steph and Harden are awesome. Embiid will be interesting. He is turnover prone and can settle for bad shots. On the other hand, he is incredibly talented and athletic. He is still inconsistent. He could go either way.

1) What other choice does he have? The wings are Lebron, Durant, DeRozan, Giannis. Lebron is on the other team and most likely first picked Durant.

2) If somehow this ASG ends up being more serious than the previous ones, I could see those 3 being a huge part of it, due to their defense.


Lebron's team has more starpower and size, but Steph's team has lots of shooting (Curry, Klay, harden, Al, Towns), playmaking and defense. I don't think its easy to say who is going to win.

[Erik]

Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

The man 3rd in the NBA in assists doesn't pass?  Huh.

https://stats.nba.com/leaders/?StatCategory=AST

2017 Allstar game 100% of shots were 3s.
2016 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2015 Allstar game 75% of shots were 3s.
2014 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2013 Allstar game 61.5% of shots were 3s.

In an allstar game there will be no pick and roll where he gets doubled and gets a free pass. He will be jacking 3s and passing to only wide open players. It's not a good recipe to win a game when you can generally get a wide open dunk if you make a couple passes.

What's the chance horford was picked last?  Lebron locked in size early with cousins and Davis and curry spent time in reserves drafting his teammates and probably towns. Then lebron probably got K love for loyalty early in reserves

Probably fairly high because he's not a big mouth with a ton of stats. But I think he has a perfect skillset for an allstar game with his great passing ability and hustle. Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

There is absolutely no way you can justify DeRozan being better than Harden.

In an allstar game he is because he plays closer to the hoop. Harden is the better player to win NBA games.

[Roy H.]

Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

The man 3rd in the NBA in assists doesn't pass?  Huh.

https://stats.nba.com/leaders/?StatCategory=AST

2017 Allstar game 100% of shots were 3s.
2016 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2015 Allstar game 75% of shots were 3s.
2014 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2013 Allstar game 61.5% of shots were 3s.

In an allstar game there will be no pick and roll where he gets doubled and gets a free pass. He will be jacking 3s and passing to only wide open players. It's not a good recipe to win a game when you can generally get a wide open dunk if you make a couple passes.

Harden is a career 48.9% 3PT shooter in the All-Star game with a .737 eFG%. That’s certainly conducive to winning.

[Erik]

Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

The man 3rd in the NBA in assists doesn't pass?  Huh.

https://stats.nba.com/leaders/?StatCategory=AST

2017 Allstar game 100% of shots were 3s.
2016 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2015 Allstar game 75% of shots were 3s.
2014 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2013 Allstar game 61.5% of shots were 3s.

In an allstar game there will be no pick and roll where he gets doubled and gets a free pass. He will be jacking 3s and passing to only wide open players. It's not a good recipe to win a game when you can generally get a wide open dunk if you make a couple passes.

Harden is a career 48.9% 3PT shooter in the All-Star game with a .737 eFG%. That’s certainly conducive to winning.

Too small of a sample set. He's a career 36.7% 3PT shooter. Just because he's excelled and created a few statistical outliers doesn't mean that it's the expected result. The expected result of a 3pt shot by James Harden is 36.7%. A dunk has an expected result of near 100%. I'd take that over even a 50% successful a 3pt shot (100% * 2 = 2 // 50% * 3 = 1.5). People like GreekF and AD that get dunks are the main players to take first. I'd take the 3pt jackers at the end.

[Roy H.]

Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

The man 3rd in the NBA in assists doesn't pass?  Huh.

https://stats.nba.com/leaders/?StatCategory=AST

2017 Allstar game 100% of shots were 3s.
2016 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2015 Allstar game 75% of shots were 3s.
2014 Allstar game 85.7% of shots were 3s.
2013 Allstar game 61.5% of shots were 3s.

In an allstar game there will be no pick and roll where he gets doubled and gets a free pass. He will be jacking 3s and passing to only wide open players. It's not a good recipe to win a game when you can generally get a wide open dunk if you make a couple passes.

Harden is a career 48.9% 3PT shooter in the All-Star game with a .737 eFG%. That’s certainly conducive to winning.

Too small of a sample set. He's a career 36.7% 3PT shooter. Just because he's excelled and created a few statistical outliers doesn't mean that it's the expected result. The expected result of a 3pt shot by James Harden is 36.7%. A dunk has an expected result of near 100%. I'd take that over even a 50% successful a 3pt shot (100% * 2 = 2 // 50% * 3 = 1.5). People like GreekF and AD that get dunks are the main players to take first. I'd take the 3pt jackers at the end.

It doesn’t work that way. Shots in the All-Star game are not equivalent to shots in regular-season games. That should be pretty obvious right? Otherwise we’d be seeing a lot more 180+ point games.

Plus, your position is internally inconsistent. You want to rely upon the percentage that he takes threes at in all-star games, while ignoring the percentage that he makes threes at.

[Tr1boy]

The NBA all star game is a joke... I never watch it because guys are just goofing around. Zero defense. Minimal effort

Dunk contest and 3 pt contest are the highlights of the festivities

I think a better idea would be to try a new all star game format (except for rising star game , leave that to 5 on 5).   Do a 3 on 3 format, half court, 6 minute mini game.  5 players in each team.

4 teams 4 games 1st round.  2 teams go to the final round.   

I think individual talents would shine more this way.  More exciting concept

[Erik]

It doesn’t work that way. Shots in the All-Star game are not equivalent to shots in regular-season games. That should be pretty obvious right? Otherwise we’d be seeing a lot more 180+ point games.

I get that the shots are more wide open in allstar games, but to discriminate the career averages would imply that he doesn't get wide open shots in NBA games, which we also know is not true. You similarly cannot conclude that the expected result of a Harden 3pt shot is 47% in an allstar game. We don't have enough data to support that.

You'd also have to apply the similar bias to all players because the defense is bad at all shot levels. All 3 pt shooters will see a +%. All mid ranged shooters will see a +%. Not just Harden unless he has some magic gene that no one else has in Allstar games. For example, in the last allstar game, only four players (one being Harden) had less than 50% FG%... a mark that is *very* good for a regular NBA game.

That's why it's best to just work with career averages and assume the biases are equal across the board for an allstar game, or comb through decades of stats and see if there is any significant evidence that 3pt shooters are more highly rewarded in allstar formats than other types of players. I don't believe we will find such correlation, but it's worth a look.

[Moranis]

The NBA all star game is a joke... I never watch it because guys are just goofing around. Zero defense. Minimal effort

Dunk contest and 3 pt contest are the highlights of the festivities

I think a better idea would be to try a new all star game format (except for rising star game , leave that to 5 on 5).   Do a 3 on 3 format, half court, 6 minute mini game.  5 players in each team.

4 teams 4 games 1st round.  2 teams go to the final round.   

I think individual talents would shine more this way.  More exciting concept

they would lose 4 all star spots that way, though they could just make each team 6 players, which gets you back to 24

[Who]

What's the chance horford was picked last?  Lebron locked in size early with cousins and Davis and curry spent time in reserves drafting his teammates and probably towns. Then lebron probably got K love for loyalty early in reserves

Probably fairly high because he's not a big mouth with a ton of stats. But I think he has a perfect skillset for an allstar game with his great passing ability and hustle. Least valuable players are players like Harden who  will just jack up contested 3s and ignore the fact that there are 4 other amazing players on their team. I would last pick Harden on starters and probably Oladipo on the reserves.

I don't think Horford is that great for the ASG. Skill-set wise. He hasn't done all that much in the past either.

I think bigs who can rebound and run do very well in ASGs. Someone like Anthony Davis. Someone who snatch up those misses and start the break the other way. And finish on the break when the perimeter guys don't get a quick basket.

Horford is good in transition but he is a dodgy rebounder. He doesn't have the athleticism anymore to go get a ton of rebounds anymore. Not like he could when he was younger. Horford was a very good rebounder back then.

On offense, I think Horford is too patient and unselfish. He is more of a halfcourt player. Just a different type than someone like Aldridge. Horford wants to move the ball and he does that well but in the ASG there are a lot of quick shots. Not much probing play offensively. Just quick decisions and action. So there are not as many touches in the halfcourt and Horford doesn't get on the ball as much and consequently his passing does not create as much value. Horford also passes up a lot of scoring opportunities because he is such a facilitator-mindset wise.

So I don't think Horford has such a great skill-set for the ASG. The lack of rebounding -- where many bigs contribute the most in ASGs - hurts him badly. And his passive ways and reliance on patient slow attacks on offense versus quick aggressive attacking hurts him too.

[Who]

Steph's team:

Not wild about DeRozan and Giannis together in the starting lineup. I haven't liked DeRozan in the ASG in the past. He is very selfish and not efficient enough to justify it. Takes shots away from better players. Harms ball movement. Settles for bad shots. Dodgy jump-shooter. And Giannis is a non-shooter. So I don't like the two of them together. I think Steph would've been better off with a shooter at SF next to Giannis rather than DeRozan's slashing game.

His bench has a lot of guys who are not great All-Star type players. Horford, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler. Slower players who do great in a halfcourt game which the ASG is not. It is more of an open court game. I don't think these guys do their best work there. So I don't his selections on the bench.

I don't like the Lowry selection either. Steph has Klay and Lillard off the bench with himself and Harden in the starting lineup. Lots of shooting and ball-handling. Lowry is unnecessary. They should glue his butt to the bench.

I think Lillard will do great in the ASG. I like Klay and Towns too. Lillard I think is a sleeper for MVP. I can see him having a huge game off the bench.

Giannis will be dynamite. Another top MVP candidate. He will be a breakaway train in the open court. Dunking left and right. Grabbing rebounds / loose balls. Handling the ball in transition. A nightmare for LeBron's team.

Steph and Harden are awesome. Embiid will be interesting. He is turnover prone and can settle for bad shots. On the other hand, he is incredibly talented and athletic. He is still inconsistent. He could go either way.

1) What other choice does he have? The wings are Lebron, Durant, DeRozan, Giannis. Lebron is on the other team and most likely first picked Durant.

2) If somehow this ASG ends up being more serious than the previous ones, I could see those 3 being a huge part of it, due to their defense.


Lebron's team has more starpower and size, but Steph's team has lots of shooting (Curry, Klay, harden, Al, Towns), playmaking and defense. I don't think its easy to say who is going to win.

I didn't realize they had to stick to the starters / reserves divide when picking teams.

That is a bummer. That is largely responsible for these mismatched units.

They could have done a much better job if they had of allowed the players to choose from whole ASG group (22 players) instead of limiting choices to 8 guys chosen by fans. Bad decision by NBA.