Author Topic: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows  (Read 9594 times)

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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2018, 01:18:58 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.
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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2018, 01:41:36 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Thomas was great for us last season on every level. To now claim he is some kind of team cancer is laughable.  The only difference between IT today vs a year ago is rust, and perhaps a lingering injury.  The guy was 2nd All NBA.  How can Celtic fans suddenly start saying "I told you so."  I favored the trade, for business/basketball reasons. That's not the same thing as kicking IT when he's down. 

What happened to compassion??

Compassion?

I'm sorry, but I don't have compassion for a man making more money in one year than I will make in my lifetime. If getting some harsh criticism comes with the territory, so be it. He can wipe his crocodile tears with his millions.

This doesn't mean I can't be compassionate for him as a human being, though. The loss of his sister was tragic, and for that I do have sympathy for him. I don't want to see him end up debilitated from his hip condition, again, a level of compassion.

But for trivial matters such as facing criticism over his play, tough beans. Compassion has nothing to do with it.

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2018, 01:44:30 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Wow, reading some of these comments on this thread, I didn't realize so many people actually disliked Isaiah during his entire time in Boston :o

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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2018, 01:45:56 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I agree with this. Hayward has a much larger margin for error cause of his game and size if he loses a little quickness initially.

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2018, 01:57:55 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I agree with this. Hayward has a much larger margin for error cause of his game and size if he loses a little quickness initially.

And he actually would still help us quite a bit even as more of a spot up shooter.  We seriously have almost no reliable guys like that on the team.  Right now our top shooters are the two guys we want making plays (Kyrie and Al).  That's not a recipe for a good offense.  Tatum has a great percentage but he doesn't shoot that often.  We need guys to space for them.  Hayward can do that and more when healthy, but even as a shooter would be big.

I think a lot of C's fans are underrating how much that impacts this team right now and it's poor offense.  I think if we could just add shooting everything would open up and improve (passing as well, which Hayward can provide too even if able to do less off the dribble).  Just a guy out there that the defense has to stick to or run out hard on at all times.
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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2018, 02:01:51 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I agree with this. Hayward has a much larger margin for error cause of his game and size if he loses a little quickness initially.

And he actually would still help us quite a bit even as more of a spot up shooter.  We seriously have almost no reliable guys like that on the team. Right now our top shooters are the two guys we want making plays (Kyrie and Al). We need guys to space for them.  Hayward can do that and more when healthy, but even as a shooter would be big.

I think a lot of C's fans are underrating how much that impacts this team right now and it's poor offense.  I think if we could just add shooting everything would open up and improve (passing as well, which Hayward can provide too even if able to do less off the dribble).

Ummm, Tatum?  Brown's shooting solidly as well.  If you want to look at the last few games maybe it's different, but we do have other shooting options.

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2018, 02:04:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wow, reading some of these comments on this thread, I didn't realize so many people actually disliked Isaiah during his entire time in Boston :o

I think a lot of fans are loyal to laundry, and are susceptible to wild mood swings about as much as WWE fans are.  IT is now a heel, apparently, so let's boo him.


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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2018, 02:09:23 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I agree with this. Hayward has a much larger margin for error cause of his game and size if he loses a little quickness initially.

And he actually would still help us quite a bit even as more of a spot up shooter.  We seriously have almost no reliable guys like that on the team. Right now our top shooters are the two guys we want making plays (Kyrie and Al). We need guys to space for them.  Hayward can do that and more when healthy, but even as a shooter would be big.

I think a lot of C's fans are underrating how much that impacts this team right now and it's poor offense.  I think if we could just add shooting everything would open up and improve (passing as well, which Hayward can provide too even if able to do less off the dribble).

Ummm, Tatum?  Brown's shooting solidly as well.  If you want to look at the last few games maybe it's different, but we do have other shooting options.

Tatum is making 1.5 3's per game on 3.1 attempts per game.  He doesn't shoot enough to be a threat of that kind right now.

Brown is better rate wise, making at 1.7 3's per game and 4.5  attempts per game.  He shoots a lesser percentage though.

It's not that I am down on either guy, but they aren't quite doing enough and reliable enough game to game.  I should have given them credit in my post because they have had their games for sure. Lately, Brown has been down, Tatum has been nonexistant besides last game almost the few before.  And beyond that, you just need more shooting across your roster right now in the NBA beyond two guys besides your stars and you want to know they will show up every night.

Also, I do not lay this all at their feet.  They both have been better from 3 point range than I expected.  The problem comes in when you have Smart and Rozier out there too, so you have little respectable 3 point shooting in your backcourt and across a whole line up, that it becomes a big issue.  You have Marcus Morris who is not really a 3 point shooter so much (33 percent on the season right now).  Baynes isn't hitting 3's.  Semi, who has played quite a bit and basically only shoots 3's on offense, has been awful shooting.

The offensive numbers don't lie, especially lately.  But they're bad on the season.  The team can look real good on times when Jaylen and Brown are firing and hitting and being aggressive, there is no doubt.  Steven's system really relies on shooting and spacing so I think the offense is suffering because of that.

I also think passing is a big factor as well (we have a number of really bad passers), so it isn't quite all shooting.  I do think that is a very big part though.

Also: the team is great still and in a good spot.  I don't mean to sound doom and gloom.  I just want them to take the next step to be a real Warriors/Rockets level team, and to do so they need at least a top half of the league ranked offense.  The defense is there.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 02:30:45 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2018, 02:17:14 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Great point about Hayward nickagneta!!!

Smitty77

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2018, 02:55:01 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I'm with you, Monk. It definitely shouldn't be assumed that Hayward will be a 'net negative.' Along with your points above, let's also not forget that Hayward had a full training camp and pre-season playing with his teammates and for a coach he already knew very well. He has also been very involved in team activities. I don't necessarily think that Hayward will immediately come back in top form, but [if/when he is cleared to play] he is miles ahead of where IT was in his comeback.

On a side note, I am happy to see the Cavs playing horribly, but am pulling for IT. He was an exciting player for us the last couple of years and he gave his all for Boston. I imagine it is a very small minority who actually dislike (or disliked) IT; people were mostly just concerned about that max contract and wondered what the ceiling of the team was with him as the leader.

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2018, 03:02:54 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system

Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know. Although if Haywards shooting is an indication, if he can put up at least 75% of his usual self, that's a plus in my book. We desperately need another ball handling play maker that can make shots.

I'm with you, Monk. It definitely shouldn't be assumed that Hayward will be a 'net negative.' Along with your points above, let's also not forget that Hayward had a full training camp and pre-season playing with his teammates and for a coach he already knew very well. He has also been very involved in team activities. I don't necessarily think that Hayward will immediately come back in top form, but [if/when he is cleared to play] he is miles ahead of where IT was in his comeback.

On a side note, I am happy to see the Cavs playing horribly, but am pulling for IT. He was an exciting player for us the last couple of years and he gave his all for Boston. I imagine it is a very small minority who actually dislike (or disliked) IT; people were mostly just concerned about that max contract and wondered what the ceiling of the team was with him as the leader.

Me too. Agreed with most of your points. This is where I feel like Pop and Stevens differ coaching wise. Pop is more blunt and willing to curse you out for boneheaded plays and at times alienate players occasionally. We have seen this with LMA and Parker several years ago.

I do miss IT. Confidentially enough if you took back IT, he would be a super sixth man and I have no doubt in our system with Smart taking on stronger defenders would average 18 to 20 off the bench easily. Problem is IT has a huge ego. And that comes along with great players, the problem is LeBron isn't convinced he's at that level so a strained relationship is the end result.
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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2018, 03:09:09 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Bones heal back stronger only during early progress but then remodel-"they are neither stronger or weaker" after that initial build up.
And remember Hayward is not 5-9

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2018, 04:05:16 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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During his time here I thought IT was a good guy. Did things in the community and I enjoyed the fact that at 5'9 he could perform at the level that he did. With that being said, I never saw a way of an IT lead team going anywhere. He had too many deficiencies and so did the rest of the team. The only hope was Brown and if they could get a top 3 pick in the draft.

Brown produced last year and we ended up getting a top 3 pick because again it represented hope.

Since IT has left I have like very little about him. The constant battering of the franchise. The constant talk about the trade. On a side note IM not sure why people get hung up on the money. Hope the man makes what he can make. Anyways, the constant dropping of videos. The whole video tribute issue but IM going to come out [dang] near at the start of the 2nd quarter so people can recognize me.

Lastly, I feel like a healthy or just returning IT would limit the growth of Brown and Tatum. Kyrie has really tried to push them along in games. What I see is IT worrying about his money taking a ton of shots. Love's production has tanked since he has been back. I wouldnt want that for Tatum and Brown. Those guys were much more important in the grand scheme of things than IT was on the court in my eyes.

Sorry, just cant get on the IT lovefest.

Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2018, 04:10:01 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Probably... But considering Hayward doesn't rely on his athleticism or speed like IT does, we may never know.

Small thing but I actually disagree with that quite a bit.  Hayward can still be effective at less than 100% but he is actually a very athletic player.  It's one of his core strengths as a player.  He's really athletic and active on the floor, with or without the ball.  Add to that shooting ability, passing, dribbling and you have a star and extremely versatile player.

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Re: Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2018, 04:28:40 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Wow, reading some of these comments on this thread, I didn't realize so many people actually disliked Isaiah during his entire time in Boston :o

I think a lot of fans are loyal to laundry, and are susceptible to wild mood swings about as much as WWE fans are.  IT is now a heel, apparently, so let's boo him.

Roy don't you think a large part of this is that he is probably playing on the most unlikeable team in the NBA right now? A bunch of aging vets with holes in their game and large paycheck s fighting with each other? They also are one of our primary competitors in the east. If he was Sacramento, utah or even a team like San Antonio there would be a lot less negativity