Isaiah getting clobbered on talk shows

[Smitty77]

Thomas was great for us last season on every level. To now claim he is some kind of team cancer is laughable.  The only difference between IT today vs a year ago is rust, and perhaps a lingering injury.  The guy was 2nd All NBA.  How can Celtic fans suddenly start saying "I told you so."  I favored the trade, for business/basketball reasons. That's not the same thing as kicking IT when he's down. 

What happened to compassion??

Come on.  IT brought some of this on himself, talking about that Brinks truck all the time.  It was NOT just once.

Smitty77

[Roy H.]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

[Smitty77]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

Yes, who care that the Cavs were outscoring their opponents by exactly 3 points in the 38 games prior to IT playing and are NOW being outscored by 18.33 points per game with IT playing!!!

Smitty77

[greg683x]

Im hoping Cleveland moves him for two reasons:

- He deserves a fresh start where he can potentially be the player he was last year (if his body lets him) instead of being in a square peg, round hole situation hes in now

- Cleveland gets even more egg on their face with the Kyrie Irving trade.  They'll be lucky if the Brooklyn pick makes it in the top 8, and they had to trade Isaiah mid season for pennies on the dollar, in a year theyre trying to convince Lebron to stay.

Karma for holding up the trade and trying to squeeze more out of us.  I cant wait for Cleveland to plummet back into oblivion

[GreenShooter]

Im hoping Cleveland moves him for two reasons:

- He deserves a fresh start where he can potentially be the player he was last year (if his body lets him) instead of being in a square peg, round hole situation hes in now

- Cleveland gets even more egg on their face with the Kyrie Irving trade.  They'll be lucky if the Brooklyn pick makes it in the top 8, and they had to trade Isaiah mid season for pennies on the dollar, in a year theyre trying to convince Lebron to stay.

Karma for holding up the trade and trying to squeeze more out of us.  I cant wait for Cleveland to plummet back into oblivion

Yeah, enjoy that 2020 second round pick while we possibly could be looking at 4 first rounders next year.

[Roy H.]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

Yes, who care that the Cavs were outscoring their opponents by exactly 3 points in the 38 games prior to IT playing and are NOW being outscored by 18.33 points per game with IT playing!!!

Smitty77

So IT is responsible for the defense in games he doesn’t play, just because they’re since his comeback?

[Smitty77]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

Yes, who care that the Cavs were outscoring their opponents by exactly 3 points in the 38 games prior to IT playing and are NOW being outscored by 18.33 points per game with IT playing!!!

Smitty77

So IT is responsible for the defense in games he doesn’t play, just because they’re since his comeback?

I think I made a mistake in my math.  But, that being said, IT sat in ONLY one of the 8 games, on January 12th vs. Indy.  In those 7 games, they were a -103 points.  Divide that by 7 and lost those 7 games in which IT played by an average of 14.714 points.  Remember that they averaged WINNING by almost 3 points in the games he did NOT play!!

Smitty77

[green_bballers13]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

Yes, who care that the Cavs were outscoring their opponents by exactly 3 points in the 38 games prior to IT playing and are NOW being outscored by 18.33 points per game with IT playing!!!

Smitty77

So IT is responsible for the defense in games he doesn’t play, just because they’re since his comeback?

I don't think he's trying to say that IT is responsible while not playing. IT isn't the reason that they haven't been good. However, if he was playing anywhere like he was last year, CLE most likely wouldn't be in the same situation.

Halfway through the season, most CLE fans must not be psyched about this trade. Celtics fans should be ecstatic that Danny pulled the trigger on this one. Kyrie is a slam dunk top 15 player. CLE would be lucky if they got that out of the BKN pick 5-7 years from now.

[Ogaju]

my problem with IT was not just when he asked for the Brinks Truck, but when he openly flirted with the Lakers. I am sure Danny did not like that.

[jbpats]

I have no ill will towards IT but lets call a spade a spade here.
He was a product of Stevens system, as was Crowder, and are both struggling now without that structure.
That being said I do believe IT has better basketball left in him then what he is showing right now, and do feel that he is rotting away on that dysfunctional Cavs team, but I dont think he will ever be remotely close to the player he was here in Boston ever again.
At the end of the day he is an undersized PG, who may have lost a step from this injury and who can't defend. He doesn't have Steven's defensive schemes hiding that inability right now. If he has lost a step then his small size is going to catch up to him in this league.

I think 15 mil is about right, maybe a little more for a terrible team who can't attract free agents and have money to spend. He'll put people in the seats at the very least.

[Snakehead]

I think the NBA media has gotten ridiculous this year.  Of course this stuff goes on, but with Lavar Ball, many IT stories all year long, The Rockets/Clips misreporting, and many other things, it's just this TMZ atmosphere being blown up larger than ever I think.  I do think it sells to some people sadly, but I personally put an onus on media outlets to do quality work and say, not go to Lavar Ball for quotes all the time or publish anything he says as a top story. 

Windhose blasting IT is clearly him working as a LeBron/Cavs org PR man, which is nothing new.  To give him all the blame, coming off an injury when your defense was already unbelievably bad and you were starting KEVIN LOVE at Center is laughable.  But just the transparency of it and him so clearly continuing his shlock is just tiring and speaks to how bad ESPN is now, for the most part.

It just reminds me of the atmosphere that ruined most NFL media as well for me.  The sport is demphasized for flashy trumped up headlines and garbage stories of TMZ levels.  No thanks.  I will just continue to withdraw from it.  There will always be a great writer who talks the game like Lowe out there, so that's good.

[Snakehead]

All those guys you named;  Wright, Sharpe, Bayless, etc....  are in the job of issuing hot takes.  Take all of that stuff with a heavy grain of salt.

Better yet, don't watch any of those "Embrace Debate" morning shows.  They're garbage.

Yep. The entire basis of their shows is blowing stuff out of proportion.

IT is playing poorly, but Cleveland’s issues extend well beyond him.

Yes and no

1st line of D is the pg

Ever since he has returned, their points against has increased

They’re 4-11 in their last 15 games. IT has played in 8 of them, going 3-5. They’re 1-6 in that time period without him.

As I said, Cleveland’s issues go well beyond IT.

In those 8 games, they have been outscored by 93 points!!

Smitty77

Who cares? They’re losing without IT just fine.  They’ve been outscored by 126 points in Lebron’s last 12 games, for instance.

Yes, who care that the Cavs were outscoring their opponents by exactly 3 points in the 38 games prior to IT playing and are NOW being outscored by 18.33 points per game with IT playing!!!

Smitty77

So IT is responsible for the defense in games he doesn’t play, just because they’re since his comeback?

I don't think he's trying to say that IT is responsible while not playing. IT isn't the reason that they haven't been good. However, if he was playing anywhere like he was last year, CLE most likely wouldn't be in the same situation.

They would be better but the defense would be no different.  IT was never changing that.  There has been a huge fall off with guys like Thompson and Crowder and then Kevin Love is as awful as always and starting at C.  IT did nothing to change this stuff and it was always known he was weak in this area.

[ThaPreacher]

Thomas was great for us last season on every level. To now claim he is some kind of team cancer is laughable.  The only difference between IT today vs a year ago is rust, and perhaps a lingering injury.  The guy was 2nd All NBA.  How can Celtic fans suddenly start saying "I told you so."  I favored the trade, for business/basketball reasons. That's not the same thing as kicking IT when he's down. 

What happened to compassion??

Come on.  IT brought some of this on himself, talking about that Brinks truck all the time.  It was NOT just once.

Smitty77

I didn't like the Brinks Trucks stuff-but, IT like a number of NBA players was always seen as an undersized guard, was never truly paid what he was worth. Really, look at his numbers. Look at the average salary that year with players with similar numbers, and then tell me IT got a fair shake.

He was self-promoting. And in this day and age, Professional Athletes do that.

He didn't have an off-season to prepare. No pre-season. He is coming off an injury that sidelined him for months. 

These wannabe sports talk show hosts- rarely examine all the facts.

IT earned his All-Star Status. He earned his starting position. Patience is rarely a warrior that is employed anymore.

[Vermont Green]

I think it is all true, the Cavs have been bad when IT has played but they have also been bad lately when he hasn't played.  Best thing you can say is that IT isn't making any difference which is not a particularly favorable thing to say.

I don't think IT is 100% physically (that is not just hip related things but also timing and all that) and I also don't think he has figured out how he needs to play with CLE (LeBron).  Neither one is making the other better right now which is another problem for CLE.

I think things will get better probably.  IT is a really good player.  We saw that last season.  He might never be 2016-17 good again but I still think he has some really good basketball left in him.  Adding an impact player like IT to a team mid season is not easy.  I think all of us may have minimized this aspect.  It does seem like they should be farther along in integrating IT at this point though.

[nickagneta]

Maybe not the place for it but if ITs comeback should teach us anything its that if Hayward attempts to come back this year during the playoffs, he'll probably be a net negative this year as he attempts to come back, get in shape, and get attuned to the system