Author Topic: Riddle me this...  (Read 846 times)

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Riddle me this...
« on: January 23, 2018, 11:03:10 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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should NBA address ring chasing and its diluting effect on the salary cap?

So for example we have a superstar like say..... Kevin Durant (probably the best player in the league). Problem is Mr. Durant did not have a championship ring placing his legacy and endorsement capacity at risk. In comes shoe company X with an idea. 'Hey Mr. Durant you can make us a lot of money endorsing our shoes if only you could win one two or three NBA rings. Why dont you join the best team in the league and increase your chance of winning those rings'. Durant says well yeah I can join the GSW, but with my max contract they will lose the necessary supporting players that make them the best team in the league.  Shoe company X says dont take the max, we will compensate you with a huge endorsement contract the make up for the reduction you take on your contract. So problem solved Durant forms super team circumvents the salary cap by getting part of his max contract from shoe company X. Works out well for both as Durant wins his three rings and sells more shoes for the shoe company that made it all happen.

Moral of the story is .... superstars should not be allowed to take less money otherwise you might as well scrap the salary cap.

If you disagree with this, what stops LeBron from taking 2 million a year to play for GSW? He sure does not need the money, and if he does Nike can just raise his endorsement contract.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 11:18:03 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Sounds like some communist crap that will never fly.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 11:31:13 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Sounds like some communist crap that will never fly.

I agree the Salary Cap is very communist. Scrap it.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 12:05:22 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Obviously the American education system has failed since neither one of you have the foggiest idea what communism is.  :o

So, who does own the means of production in the nba and where are the lumpen proletariat? And, is this from each according to their ability and to each according to their need?  ;D
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Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 01:36:05 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Obviously the American education system has failed since neither one of you have the foggiest idea what communism is.  :o

So, who does own the means of production in the nba and where are the lumpen proletariat? And, is this from each according to their ability and to each according to their need?  ;D

lol touche, but what is LeBron really worth on the open market?

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 01:52:22 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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should NBA address ring chasing and its diluting effect on the salary cap?

So for example we have a superstar like say..... Kevin Durant (probably the best player in the league). Problem is Mr. Durant did not have a championship ring placing his legacy and endorsement capacity at risk. In comes shoe company X with an idea. 'Hey Mr. Durant you can make us a lot of money endorsing our shoes if only you could win one two or three NBA rings. Why dont you join the best team in the league and increase your chance of winning those rings'. Durant says well yeah I can join the GSW, but with my max contract they will lose the necessary supporting players that make them the best team in the league.  Shoe company X says dont take the max, we will compensate you with a huge endorsement contract the make up for the reduction you take on your contract. So problem solved Durant forms super team circumvents the salary cap by getting part of his max contract from shoe company X. Works out well for both as Durant wins his three rings and sells more shoes for the shoe company that made it all happen.

Moral of the story is .... superstars should not be allowed to take less money otherwise you might as well scrap the salary cap.

If you disagree with this, what stops LeBron from taking 2 million a year to play for GSW? He sure does not need the money, and if he does Nike can just raise his endorsement contract.

The problem is, who defines who is a “superstar?”

Are you just going to classify players based on stats? Popularity? Awards/accolades? In theory, it sounds like a nice idea. But, I think hometown discounts should be allowed. Small market teams should be allowed to overpay for a player to get him.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 02:40:42 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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the discount is subject to abuse, and like I said it may not be a discount if the player is getting paid from other sources. It really violates the spirit of the salary cap. What Durant did was not a hometown discount. He left his team to chase a ring, and my post was about ring chasers.

Who determines who a superstar is? The market does. A free agent would be tagged with the highest offer he commands on the open market. So lets say Durant hits the free agency market, and a couple of teams offer him the max he can go anywhere he wants for any discount he likes, but his cap hit for any team he joins will be the max he was offered on the open market. Now that will restore equity to the market. Do that, or just scrap the salary cap altogether.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 03:11:43 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Obviously the American education system has failed since neither one of you have the foggiest idea what communism is.  :o

So, who does own the means of production in the nba and where are the lumpen proletariat? And, is this from each according to their ability and to each according to their need?  ;D

I'm well aware of what actual communism is and isn't.  And I'm not too concerned with what your impression of what my level or quality of education may or may not be is, as it is rather irrelevant.

My comment was merely meant to be a cheeky reply to a rather absurd premise.  The idea that a player should not be free to accept whatever salary they so choose is beyond the pale and not worthy of a serious reply.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 04:08:05 AM »

Offline Androslav

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should NBA address ring chasing and its diluting effect on the salary cap?

So for example we have a superstar like say..... Kevin Durant (probably the best player in the league). Problem is Mr. Durant did not have a championship ring placing his legacy and endorsement capacity at risk. In comes shoe company X with an idea. 'Hey Mr. Durant you can make us a lot of money endorsing our shoes if only you could win one two or three NBA rings. Why dont you join the best team in the league and increase your chance of winning those rings'. Durant says well yeah I can join the GSW, but with my max contract they will lose the necessary supporting players that make them the best team in the league.  Shoe company X says dont take the max, we will compensate you with a huge endorsement contract the make up for the reduction you take on your contract. So problem solved Durant forms super team circumvents the salary cap by getting part of his max contract from shoe company X. Works out well for both as Durant wins his three rings and sells more shoes for the shoe company that made it all happen.

Moral of the story is .... superstars should not be allowed to take less money otherwise you might as well scrap the salary cap.

If you disagree with this, what stops LeBron from taking 2 million a year to play for GSW? He sure does not need the money, and if he does Nike can just raise his endorsement contract.

I'd like LBJ to play for 2 mil$.
It would prove in the long term who is in for the ring and also who can afford to do so.
Why?
Well, even before our dynasty in the making appeared I saw the Spurs. I concluded that they are the best organization in basketball. Celtics are better now IMO, but in the 1998-2007 that wasn't the case and Spurs won it 4 times in that span. Why were Spurs the best? Duncan, Pop, Manu, Parker, Buford and partially cause they had people taking pay cuts. They had 3 first ballot HOF guys playing for 2 HOFs salary. How sweet was that for the fans? Really, really sweet.

That brings us to our clairvoyant perspective. I have written before that in 2 years we will have 4-5 Max level guys on our roster (Kyrie, GH, Tatum, Brown, Horford) and it will be impossible to pay all of them their market price and keep all that talent on our roster.

If LBJ takes a severe pay cut it will be a precedent that will shape the league in the future.
Big Al would do the same, Dray Green too probably, I mean they got the max before. If you want to be a part of a historic team in this day and age it would be a prerequisite.
You can't pay 4 All-stars their market price and have a bench, this way you can, Spurs showed us, LBJ would confirm it in a more drastic fashion.

To sum it up. If Lebron takes a pay cut, due to his immense influence on the league, the Celtics would have an easier time to keep their talented squad for a decade.
New Celtic dynasty would be more possible.

There is no easy way to dethrone this Warriors team, so don't delude yourself.

Also, the idea of forcing a player to take the max money is like forcing a lottery winner to spend his money all by himself even though he would rather like to donate half of it to a charity.

BTW, I feel like Americans were frightened so much by their government for decades with communism to the point where they don't comprehend why, when and how it existed. Communism was/is a Boogeyman, everything else is a Commy lie.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 04:17:04 AM by Androslav »
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Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 08:39:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think they should make all max contracts count the same against the cap, such that it doesn't matter if the max is 25%, 30%, or 35%, the cap hit for all should be say 30%.  The player is still paid the appropriate %, but the team cap hit is all the same no matter the age of the player.  And to avoid some of the cheating, you call anyone that is within say 2 million of the most they can get a max contract.  This would help an old team, but would harm a younger team, but I think overall it would help balance the league a bit.  It wouldn't fix the Durant taking a bunch less, but it would mean that Thompson's cap hit would be more such that the Warriors would have had less room and might not have been able to sign Durant to begin with. 

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 08:59:52 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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should NBA address ring chasing and its diluting effect on the salary cap?

So for example we have a superstar like say..... Kevin Durant (probably the best player in the league). Problem is Mr. Durant did not have a championship ring placing his legacy and endorsement capacity at risk. In comes shoe company X with an idea. 'Hey Mr. Durant you can make us a lot of money endorsing our shoes if only you could win one two or three NBA rings. Why dont you join the best team in the league and increase your chance of winning those rings'. Durant says well yeah I can join the GSW, but with my max contract they will lose the necessary supporting players that make them the best team in the league.  Shoe company X says dont take the max, we will compensate you with a huge endorsement contract the make up for the reduction you take on your contract. So problem solved Durant forms super team circumvents the salary cap by getting part of his max contract from shoe company X. Works out well for both as Durant wins his three rings and sells more shoes for the shoe company that made it all happen.

Moral of the story is .... superstars should not be allowed to take less money otherwise you might as well scrap the salary cap.

If you disagree with this, what stops LeBron from taking 2 million a year to play for GSW? He sure does not need the money, and if he does Nike can just raise his endorsement contract.

The problem is this, I can afford to make 10-15,000 less than I do now, that doesn't mean I want to. Kevin Durant is making $25 million. It's not like we're talking chump change. I think this us much to do about nothing.
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Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 09:18:38 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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should NBA address ring chasing and its diluting effect on the salary cap?


Nope.  Players should be allowed to do whatever they want. 

They have a very limited window.  If they want rings, go for it.  If they want to try & maximize earning potential, go for it.

Their shelf lives are much less than the normal human being.


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Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 09:28:40 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Obviously the American education system has failed since neither one of you have the foggiest idea what communism is.  :o

So, who does own the means of production in the nba and where are the lumpen proletariat? And, is this from each according to their ability and to each according to their need?  ;D

I'm well aware of what actual communism is and isn't.  And I'm not too concerned with what your impression of what my level or quality of education may or may not be is, as it is rather irrelevant.

My comment was merely meant to be a cheeky reply to a rather absurd premise.  The idea that a player should not be free to accept whatever salary they so choose is beyond the pale and not worthy of a serious reply.

You are still missing the point. The point is not the players' freedom to accept whatever salary they choose. First, they cannot accept any salary because their right to contract is limited by the salary cap, but more important they can still accept whatever they want subject to the cap so your point is moot. The gist of the OP that you have chosen to ignore or do not understand is the impact on the salary cap of player's taking discount, and not the player's right to take the discount.

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 09:34:05 AM »

Online eja117

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I wouldn't mind if the league instituted a compensatory draft pick system similar to the NFL

Re: Riddle me this...
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2018, 09:50:29 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Obviously the American education system has failed since neither one of you have the foggiest idea what communism is.  :o

So, who does own the means of production in the nba and where are the lumpen proletariat? And, is this from each according to their ability and to each according to their need?  ;D

I'm well aware of what actual communism is and isn't.  And I'm not too concerned with what your impression of what my level or quality of education may or may not be is, as it is rather irrelevant.

My comment was merely meant to be a cheeky reply to a rather absurd premise.  The idea that a player should not be free to accept whatever salary they so choose is beyond the pale and not worthy of a serious reply.

You are still missing the point. The point is not the players' freedom to accept whatever salary they choose. First, they cannot accept any salary because their right to contract is limited by the salary cap, but more importantly, they can still accept whatever they want subject to the cap so your point is moot. The gist of the OP that you have chosen to ignore or do not understand is the impact on the salary cap of player's taking discount, and not the player's right to take the discount.
Personal freedom is a democratic POV/doctrine.
Putting the collective, the state, in this case, the NBA above that personal freedom is a communistic (Marxist) POV/doctrine.

I am a proud liberal - I approve the personal choice.

BTW I have come to a conclusion that I share many personal views as hwangjini.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."