Author Topic: Trade for Kawhi?  (Read 17323 times)

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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2018, 03:02:23 PM »

Offline drogbagarnett

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2018, 03:10:53 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.

What?  That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.

Disagree. Top talent would know that we prioritize top talent. Secondary or tertiary free agents might not like it, but do we necessarily need to care about the feelings of players that aren't top 15?

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2018, 03:13:38 PM »

Offline footey

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.

What?  That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.

Disagree. Top talent would know that we prioritize top talent. Secondary or tertiary free agents might not like it, but do we necessarily need to care about the feelings of players that aren't top 15?

I was about to write that we would not trade Gordon Hayward, especially under current circumstances, but then I remembered that's what I said about IT before the Kyrie trade.

Anything can happen, especially with Danny Ainge.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2018, 03:17:08 PM »

Offline jambr380

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2018, 03:46:08 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2018, 04:58:32 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team.  First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become.  Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be.  Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.   

Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Sooner the better


Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2018, 02:38:55 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.

Naah, that's a huge overpay.  The main concern with Kawhi right now is his mysterious injury issue which is keeping him from playing.  The Spurs team doctors say that he is 'cleared to play' but clearly Kawhi doesn't feel healthy, because he is refusing to play.

The bridges are just about burned with Kahwi and the Spurs as reportedly both sides feel fed up with each other.

We will need to give up value for Kawhi, but look at the trades of the big stars in the NBA in the recent past -- Cousins, Paul George, Chris Paul, and even Kyrie didn't get outrageous asset capital in return for trade.

What's Kawhi gonna fetch for the Spurs, when they know they have to get rid of him, there are still medical questions surrounding him, and Kahwi is refusing to play for them?

Yeah, dial that back a bit.  I believe that the Celtics can acquire Leonard in the offseason, but they shouldn't have to heavily overpay either.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2018, 03:52:31 PM »

Online kraidstar

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team.  First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become.  Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be.  Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.   

Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.

ROFL

Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.

He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.

In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.

Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.

I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2018, 04:05:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team.  First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become.  Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be.  Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.   

Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.

ROFL

Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.

He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.

In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.

Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.

I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.
Paul Pierce was never considered a top 5 player in the league.  He never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting (did that twice along with a 13th and 14th).  He had 1 2nd team All NBA and 3 3rd team All NBA. 

Kawhi Leonard in just 6 full seasons has finished 2nd, 3rd, and 10th in MVP voting.  Has consecutive as a 1st team All NBA selection, along with 3 1st team All Defense and a 2nd team All Defense.  He was voted the best defender in the league twice.

Pierce had a great career, but he was no where near as good at his peak as Leonard is (assuming he comes back and is the same player). 
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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2018, 05:30:32 PM »

Online kraidstar

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team.  First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become.  Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be.  Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.   

Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.

ROFL

Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.

He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.

In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.

Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.

I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.
Paul Pierce was never considered a top 5 player in the league.  He never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting (did that twice along with a 13th and 14th).  He had 1 2nd team All NBA and 3 3rd team All NBA. 

Kawhi Leonard in just 6 full seasons has finished 2nd, 3rd, and 10th in MVP voting.  Has consecutive as a 1st team All NBA selection, along with 3 1st team All Defense and a 2nd team All Defense.  He was voted the best defender in the league twice.

Pierce had a great career, but he was no where near as good at his peak as Leonard is (assuming he comes back and is the same player).

Yeah, Vince Carter was way better than Pierce too, remember?

That's what 99% of the media was pushing.

Oops!

Leonard would fly under the radar in PP's era the same way Pierce did. He was always great, he just wasn't flashy enough for the post-Michael Jordan athleticism-obsessed national media. Remember how Michael Vick was practically crowned the greatest player of all time by the NFL media?

It was all a joke. Stern and his corporate buddies were pushing the 1-on-1 athletic iso game HARD.

And there is also the little factor of Leonard playing for Poppovic. Meanwhile Pitino was trading away Joe Johnson and Billups for peanuts.

We were the equivalent of the current Sacramento Kings back then (remember Vin Baker? He was alike a homeless man's Zach Randolph)

Put Leonard on the Kings and see what happens to his prestige. Heck, he can't even get along on one of the best organizations in sports as it is.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2018, 06:13:50 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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How about this :

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3

BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis

SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford

NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams

Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe

In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.

No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.

I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.

However....

if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.

There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.

Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.

I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team.  First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become.  Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be.  Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.   

Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.

Paul Pierce might've been one of the most underrated stars of his entire generation. To add onto the previous point up top, Pierce has averaged more than 25 PPG 5 times. Leonard has only averaged it once and he isn't exactly the sparkling point of consistency given that he has missed plenty of games in his career, and hasn't been the focal point of an offense until these last 2 years.

That being said Leonard is supremely talented both physically in stature and one of the smartest defensive iq.

He's also won Finals MVP and is younger than Paul Pierce, so many years are ahead of him to catch up. While it's a stretch to say Leonard is that much better than Pierce, I would still take 2007 championship Pierce over Leonard for the game winning shot any day. Pierce is the Truth.. Just like Leonard has given fits, Pierce has been the main rival with LeBron in the East. If we had gotten Garnett sooner or as less unlucky as back then, we would have a lot more banners.
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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2018, 12:42:09 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Yeah I've gotta agree.  Rating Leonard above PP, a 10x all-star, and saying he's better than PP ever was is just recency bias.  Leonard has to do it much longer and more consistently before you can compare him to a HOFer who has his numbers up in the rafters in the Garden right now. 

Sorry dude, I ain't buying it.  Just like I'm not buying the hype that Lebron is better than Jordan when he is like 3-5 or 3-6 in Finals when his Airness was 6-0 in Finals. 

Come on man.  You just look ignorant making statements like that.  And who the hell cares about MVP voting until you actually win the award.  Kahwi has never won it, coming close doesn't mean anything because there's no prize for 2nd place.  Hell Isaiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting last year.  He's not better than Kyrie, and he's definitely not better than Paul Pierce.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 12:58:29 PM by vjcsmoke »

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2018, 01:04:52 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Yeah I've gotta agree.  Rating Leonard above PP and saying he's better than PP ever was is just recency bias.  Leonard has to do it much longer and more consistently before you can compare him to a HOFer who has his numbers up in the rafters in the Garden right now. 

Sorry dude, I ain't buying it.  Just like I'm not buying the hype that Lebron is better than Jordan when he is like 3-5 or 3-6 in Finals when his Airness was 6-0 in Finals. 

Come on man.  You just look ignorant making statements like that.  And who the hell cares about MVP voting until you actually win the award.  Kahwi has never won it, coming close doesn't mean anything because there's no prize for 2nd place.  Hell Isaiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting last year.  He's not better than Kyrie, and he's definitely not better than Paul Pierce.
No question Pierce had a better career, but only 1 time in his career was Pierce considered a top 10 player in the league (2008-2009 when he gained his only 2nd Team All NBA and finished 7th in MVP voting).  Pierce, while a good defender, was never a top 10 defender in the league. 

Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons.  He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting.  That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year.  In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall.  Pierce was never that.  It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was.  Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2018, 01:31:20 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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  • Tommy Points: 182
Like I said.  Recency bias.  Another way to put it is that Leonard has -only- put up two 20 ppg seasons in his entire career.  Jimmy Butler who has put up 4 straight 20 point+ seasons and is also regularly a member of the all-defensive team has proven much more than Leonard.  And I'm not putting Butler above Paul Pierce yet.

Leonard also has dealt with serious injury issues his entire career including this year.  Outside of his two 20ppg seasons, he has never played more than 70 games in an entire season.  Answer the question than, so is IT a better player than PP because he was top 5 in MVP voting and PP was not?  Answer is obviously no.  Question answered. 

Leonard has a lot of upside left in his game if he can come back the player that he was before the injury.  IT obviously couldn't pull that off.  But as of right now, Leonard has not done enough to prove that he is a greater player than PP was.  Your hyperbole might sound credible to your own ears, but I'm not buying what you're selling.  Come back to me in 5 years if Leonard can manage to put up the same or similar numbers that he did in 2016-17 over the next 5 years, then I'll reevaluate how worthy he is to be compared to a Hall of Famer.

Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons.  He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting.  That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year.  In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall.  Pierce was never that.  It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was.  Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.